5 / 3 / 1 Review After Three Months

[Buffalo150]

For those that are interested, here's the perspective of an older, intermediate lifter.

I have been lifting for 19 months, starting from an empty bar using 5x5 as my beginning program. As I progressed, I shortened the program to 3x5. This was due, in large part, to an inability to "recover" from one session to the next as I was actively engaged in other sporting endeavors. As I'm not in my Twenties any more, I was effectively burning the candle at both ends.

Towards the end of last spring I jumped off the 3x5 wagon and tried another program which was,in the end, not to my bodies liking either. During this time I started to read about 5/3/1 an became intrigued, a more detailed exposition is listed in my Log for those who want to know the why's and wherefore's.

As it's been three months in, I felt it was time to take a look at the numbers and assess my progress. Here it is by lift (I'm posting the 3rd set of each week, the max effort set and the estimated 1 rm calculation that Wendler uses):
Lift
Press:
136 / 142 / 140 End of 1st Cycle
135 / 142 / 137 End of 2nd Cycle
143 / 148 / 147 End of 3rd Cycle
Theoretically, I improved my Press by +/-5 lbs from my tested 1rm...

Bench
202 / 214 / 216
202 / 209 / 197
209 / 221 / 210
Again, another improvement of +/-16 lbs from my tested 1rm...

Squat
280 / 300 / 305
293 / 314 / 302
300 / 312 / 314
Again, another improvement of +/-35 lbs from my tested 1rm...

Deadlift
373 / 399 / 405
393 / 423 / 450
406 / 437 / 453
Again, another improvement of +/- 78 lbs from my tested 1rm...

Now I take these "theoretical 1rm" numbers with a grain of salt. That said, I do believe that I have made significant gains on the Squat and Deadlift that will translate to actual new PRs on the 1rm when I test them in December. As to the Press and Bench, we'll see when the time comes.

What I am comfortable saying is that I continue to make progress session to session and cycle to cycle. It is that progress that has been most gratifying and motivating....which, oddly enough, was one of the main promises of 5/3/1.

5/3/1 has definitely been a more "humane" approach to working hard. I have not torched my body, which I don't think is wise @ 54 years old...at least if I want to keep playing other sports regularly. I believe that Wendler implies that it's better to "live to fight another day" than it is to sacrifice yourself by going balls to the wall. Not only that, but you'll continue to make progress, as well as be healthier and happier. I agree!

The program allows for flexibility. This flexibility prevents boredom in the gym. In fact, I can honestly say that I can't wait to get after each session when it's lifting day. There's always a new way to make progress and (for me) that's exciting.

So, to summarize this lengthy epistle, 5/3/1 has been everything it advertized.
I've made progress over the three months.
My body has felt good and has responded to the program.
I remain motivated.

What more could you ask for? I can see staying with this format for the foreseeable future (barring any injury).

-Bflo

[dylanamus]

Thanks for sharing, Buffalo150. Interesting read, which echos much of what I have come to expect from this program. Great stuff!

[Vlad]

Hey Bflo, interesting write up, thanks for sharing!

You have made a really nice progress in squat and deadlift with this program and you have acheived this in only three months. But the two presses have clearly not progressed at the same rate, the bench press in particular. I think it's more reliable to judge the progress in 1 RM from the third week only as there are fewer reps there. Did you actually improve with this program your previous 5 RMs in bench and press?

Do you think there is something lacking in this program that is necessary for the bench press progress? What do you think about this? I know that 5/3/1 is very flexible. So maybe something should be tweaked? Maybe more frequent benching, a light bench on a squat or deadlift day?

I am asking these questions because, despite my skeptical attitude towards this program, which is changing BTW, I might try this program sometimes in the future. However I am worried about the presses as I have seen something similar in other logs as well.

[Buffalo150]

Vlad-

Did I improve my 5rm in the Bench and the Press?
I will have to go back through my log book to extract that data (and I can't find it readily here). My feeling is...no, I haven't.
That said, I've been focusing on improving the 1rm than the 5rm. I'm not sure you can "serve two masters", though I'm interested in your thoughts on that issue.

Do I think that there is some thing lacking in the program?
Great question. I tend to think that there is something I'm missing rather than Wendler having left a hole in the training format.
I know that I'm weaker in the upper body than the lower body. I have arms that are jusssst a bit longer than one would like for pressing.
So I need to find a solution that I can incorporate into 5/3/1. Now, is that more reps, extra assistance work (and what type of work that should be), I don't know...but I'm going to find out, even if it's by trial and error. I may break down and go back to the powerlifting coach I saw when I started 5x5 and ask her opinion as to what extra steps I can take to rectify this lack of progress.

I failed to mention that I perform the "boring but big" assistance work routine as outlined by Wendler and then, usually, throw in one more assistance piece. So I've felt like I was getting enough work in. It may be that it's not the "right" work that's needed at the moment. Hence the idea of going back to school.

-Bflo

[atypical1]

To me that's both a strength and a weakness with the program. It's open enough so that if you know what works for you then you can simply add it. But for many of us, we're still in the "trying to find out what works best" phase and that means we have to do a lot of experimentation.

I really view the program as a 12 month cycle with some amount of experimentation put into it. By the end of a year you should have some idea of what's working and what's not. From there you can continue with 5/3/1 or simply go onto another program (but keeping the lessons you learned close to you).

james

[bkklift]

Fully agreed atypical, and that's why I don't believe 5/3/1 is a great program for a beginner. But the flexibility afforded is also the reason I'm really enjoying the program. I like reading about other people's ideas and trying them out, if they don't work after a couple of weeks I just chuck them out. All the while, I'm still performing the core lifts. Like you said, this flexibility is both the strength and weakness of this program.

Do I believe a more regimented and focused program, like Westside, might get my big lifts up faster? Probably, yes. But I'm not training to be a powerlifter. As Wendler mentions in the ebook, 5/3/1 was born out of his frustration with competitive powerlifting and the grueling regime he was following. I want a simple program that will help me get stronger, lets me get in and out of the gym and allows a degree of flexibility so I can keep with it for the long term and 5/3/1 is exactly that.

[MikeD]

Yeah, beginners are better off with a more linear program. I just want to ask Buffalo, did you see any weight fluctuations on the program? I remember I did the first 4 weeks of Smolov, my squat went up about 25 lbs, but I think I underate and likely could have had it go up higher. Did you consider this as a problem with the delay of the upper body lifts?

Personally, I found it hard to assess my upper body lifts on this program because a) I had lost some weight before the program, b) was in between different training approaches, and c) had to deal with 2 inch diamater bars that were too hard to grip in a new gym.

But I could understand if your lifts were fairly low in the press/bench, that the once a week training of each wouldn't give enough volume.

[Buffalo150]

Mike-

Actually I gained about 5 pounds during the process. All without being as diligent about stuffing my face as I had been when I started 5x5.

I feel that I had plenty of volume, even though I was a good week between repeating a body part session.

Where I may have missed the boat was the intensity with which I lifted. I wasn't attacking the bar and I think that is what held me back. I always get up for Squats and Deadlifts...not so much for Benches and definitely not for the Press.

This last cycle I committed to attacking each and every lift of every set. We'll see if that leads to better gains over the next 3 month cycle...'cause god knows the weights are gonna be getting up there towards my 1rm.

I can certainly understand being put off your game being between programs, not to mention using "fat" bars (which always results in a loss of poundage lifted). The weight loss issue can effect you in many ways, not the least of which is finding yourself falling short of optimal performances. I wouldn't sweat it short term.

Stick with what you're trying to accomplish with 5/3/1...patience is a virtue.

Though here's an interesting article about pushing hard and then pulling back on the intensity and BOOM two weeks later some really wicked results...
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_arti ... rogram&cr=

For what it's worth...

-Bflo

[LiftingNerd]

Wendler has mentioned to increase specific lifts, and to prevent over training, that you choose one lift every week (or every cycle) that you are going to crush. Everything else you do just the required amount, maybe one rep more, but you save all the mental and physical energy you can for that one set a week. Perhaps pick a lift next week and give it a shot.

[holvoetn]

Bflo,
on average, how long do your workouts take now as opposed to the past ?
Just wondering since I am seeing possible time-gains from the 5/3/1 approach.

[Wellhairedbeast]

Wendler has mentioned to increase specific lifts, and to prevent over training, that you choose one lift every week (or every cycle) that you are going to crush. Everything else you do just the required amount, maybe one rep more, but you save all the mental and physical energy you can for that one set a week. Perhaps pick a lift next week and give it a shot.

So for example, if you were focusing on the OHP and for the other lifts your were using 2 assistance exerciess, you might use 3 or 4?

Or does he mean extra sets of the mainlift itself?

[tenkev]

No. In the last rep of lifting heavy you do as many reps as you can. On the 5 week your last rep is 85% of your estimated 1RM. On the first two sets you do only the assigned 5 reps. On the last set you do as many reps with that 85% as you can.

Yesterday was my 5 day for squats. I did 5 reps @ 270, 5 @ 290 & then 10 @ 305.

I think only the really heavy lifters need to do what LiftingNerd said. I kill it every time (except for deload week) and I never suffer from overtraining.

[Wellhairedbeast]

Oh i see, i was aware of the extra reps on the last set - but i didn't realise that he was referring to restricting that to just one exercise.

[MikeD]

Oh i see, i was aware of the extra reps on the last set - but i didn't realise that he was referring to restricting that to just one exercise.

He wasn't, you rep out on each exercise. What LN was talking about was simply choosing where all your grit and focus goes. If you want your press to go up, achieve only the reps necessary for the other exercises and put all your reserves into the press days.
That's only if your trying to bring a lagging lift up, however. If not, give it your all on each lift. Clear now?

[Wellhairedbeast]

Ah i see that makes sense.