Can't decide whether to run post workout!

[Rockfella]

Hey all,
When I started 5 x 5s I used to run on the treadmill for 15+ mins every Tue/sat post workout. Now since I squat much more than previous running after workouts has become very demanding. I have stopped running all-together as I hate long-steady cardio and for the reason given above. I am not noticing any fat loss doing 5 x 5 as of now. What do u guys suggest? Shall I go full throttle on gaining strength and reduce fat later or run on the treadmill post workout? (I still can do it!)
Thanks in advance.
PS: Fat loss is not my top priority, strength is for the time being. (Till I squat 1.5xbw for 5 x 5) Please suggest what u think is best.

[Munnings]

im probably going to start running soon. I dont see how it could hurt any gains so long as your not pushing youself really hard.
so i guess run if your legs arent really fatigued?
also, why dont you do a light run for a warm up if you want to keep running and maintain cardio?

[Rockfella]

I do stretching and hopping for a while before squatting, don't like to run before squats, want to use max intensity while squatting. I can run post workout but it is only for like 15-20 mins max I don't even know if it is beneficial/good enough to burn fat as long steady cardio is effective if done for more than 30 mins. I don't have time running for 30 mins post workout (really) Another option is doing TABATA post workout on the elliptical trainer.

TABATA:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Tabata-Anythi ... &id=348486

http://www.tabataprotocol.com/

Lot of friends of mine lost fat FAST and got underweight within months doing this routine. TABATA is the most intense form of HIIT training, long steady cardio burns calories while u do it: like running for 30 mins will burn calories while u r running, TABATA and HIIT keeps on burning fat for the next two days even while u r sleeping rofl.. It is that effective! Initially when I started training/loosing weight and had no idea about 5 x 5s I wanted to lose fat ASAP. Started doing HIIT from the start (was too hard on myself) lost 3 kgs in 15 days, 2" off my waist pretty fast doing HIIT sprints but got injured fast hence quit HIIT. Thinking of starting again, u shud give it a try if u can handle it. Once i am able to do HIIT i would never waste time running on the damn treadmill for 45 mins. HIIT always! It is definitely more effective and saves time and most important is not damn boring!

im probably going to start running soon. I dont see how it could hurt any gains so long as your not pushing youself really hard.
so i guess run if your legs arent really fatigued?
also, why dont you do a light run for a warm up if you want to keep running and maintain cardio?

[Munnings]

ah ok yeah sounds pretty good. but im not trying to lose weight, im in to gain. only reason why i want to start running is improving cardio, but ill look at tabata and see if theres one that suits, thanks a lot. yeah, i also dont like the tredmills, pretty boring. id way rather just go outside and run! Sprints would most probably help with 5x5 as its pretty explosive!
so yeah rockfella thanks a lot!

[Rockfella]

err.. did i say something wrong? I feel if u want to gain stay away from cardio of all sorts for the time being.

ah ok yeah sounds pretty good. but im not trying to lose weight, im in to gain. only reason why i want to start running is improving cardio, but ill look at tabata and see if theres one that suits, thanks a lot. yeah, i also dont like the tredmills, pretty boring. id way rather just go outside and run! Sprints would most probably help with 5x5 as its pretty explosive!
so yeah rockfella thanks a lot!

[Munnings]

err.. did i say something wrong? I feel if u want to gain stay away from cardio of all sorts for the time being.

ah ok yeah sounds pretty good. but im not trying to lose weight, im in to gain. only reason why i want to start running is improving cardio, but ill look at tabata and see if theres one that suits, thanks a lot. yeah, i also dont like the tredmills, pretty boring. id way rather just go outside and run! Sprints would most probably help with 5x5 as its pretty explosive!
so yeah rockfella thanks a lot!

nah didnt say anything wrong!
im not trying to make fat gains, but muscle gains whilst maintaining/lowering fat.
im at around 10-12% BF but i just want to remove maybe a little more and also improve my heart and lungs.
also, i just tried some tabata, must say very good!
did 4 intervals of skipping 4 intervals of body weight squats and 4 intervals of push ups.
didnt take long to get really tired. so thank you! this is what ive been looking for

[knoted]

Lot of friends of mine lost fat FAST and got underweight within months doing this routine. TABATA is the most intense form of HIIT training, long steady cardio burns calories while u do it: like running for 30 mins will burn calories while u r running, TABATA and HIIT keeps on burning fat for the next two days even while u r sleeping rofl.. It is that effective!

Yes it has a bigger EPOC. But that stills adds up to approximately SFA calories. Have a read of this for a better idea. One interesting quote;

So if you burn 600 calories with high intensity continuous exercise, you might burn an additional 45 afterwards. While this certainly adds up over long periods of time, it’s still relatively insignificant compared to the total energy expenditure of the exercise bout. Again, which is more important for fat loss:the 45 extra calories you burned via EPOC or the 600 calories you burned with the exercise bout itself?

Interval training has its place in a program depending on your goals, but you shouldn't be thinking its the be all and end all.

[Munnings]

that is a good point knoted. but for a program like 5x5 i think it is really, really beneficial. plus it doesnt take any time to get exhusted, and i get really bored on a tredmill or something.
also, personally im not doing tabata to lose calories, im doing it to improve cadrio fitness
but i agree, it shouldnt be the be all and end all

[Rockfella]

Good read definitely!

Lot of friends of mine lost fat FAST and got underweight within months doing this routine. TABATA is the most intense form of HIIT training, long steady cardio burns calories while u do it: like running for 30 mins will burn calories while u r running, TABATA and HIIT keeps on burning fat for the next two days even while u r sleeping rofl.. It is that effective!

Yes it has a bigger EPOC. But that stills adds up to approximately SFA calories. Have a read of this for a better idea. One interesting quote;

So if you burn 600 calories with high intensity continuous exercise, you might burn an additional 45 afterwards. While this certainly adds up over long periods of time, it’s still relatively insignificant compared to the total energy expenditure of the exercise bout. Again, which is more important for fat loss:the 45 extra calories you burned via EPOC or the 600 calories you burned with the exercise bout itself?

Interval training has its place in a program depending on your goals, but you shouldn't be thinking its the be all and end all.

[ulbonado]

There are a lot of myths out there about tabatas, I ran across a good article on this topic just recently:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/effects-of-moderate-intensity-endurance-and-high-intensity-intermittent-training-on-anaerobic-capacity-and-vo2-max.html

Basic takeaways are that in the actual study by Prof. Tabata,

• the test subjects were doing the intense part of the workout at 170% of VO2 max on a stationary bicycle with heavy resistance. Most people supposedly doing tabatas by jumping rope or doing unweighted squats are simply not achieving the actually required intensity.
  
• The test group in Prof. Tabata's study started out less fit than the control group, who were doing steady-state cardio. Thus their larger gains may simply have occurred because they had more room to improve. Note the point that although their percentage gains were larger than the control group, they still finished the study with a lower absolute level of fitness than the steady state control group! They made gains, but they did not catch up to the initially fitter controls.
  
• Even the test group doing the interval workout also included a day of steady state cardio in their overall program. This may have contributed to some of the gains they achieved, rather than the interval workout being responsible for all of it.
  
• Finally, the test subjects only made substantial gains during the first few weeks, then improvement levelled off. This again may point to their simply having been in worse shape to begin with.

So I'm sure intervals/tabatas can give you a good workout, but they're not the panacea they're often touted as, and probably most people who say they're doing tabatas actually aren't working hard enough for it to really count.

[Rockfella]

NIce informative post. I guess it is true that in fitness everything works but for a certain amount of time. Nevertheless it worked for me (no way I was doing the original TABATA, just doing sprints with 5 mins rests in between, lost 3 kgs in flat 15-20 days .. it was maybe water or whatever I lost 2" off my waist too) After I started 5 x5s I used to run for 15 mins on the treadmill 2xweek saw 0 results. So for me HIIT is the way and I will try to get into that groove of doing HIIT 2 times a week.. though this time I will gradually grow into it coz I don't want any injuries. HIIT left me limping last time when I did it. I seriously hate running on the TM

There are a lot of myths out there about tabatas, I ran across a good article on this topic just recently:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/effects-of-moderate-intensity-endurance-and-high-intensity-intermittent-training-on-anaerobic-capacity-and-vo2-max.html

Basic takeaways are that in the actual study by Prof. Tabata,

• the test subjects were doing the intense part of the workout at 170% of VO2 max on a stationary bicycle with heavy resistance. Most people supposedly doing tabatas by jumping rope or doing unweighted squats are simply not achieving the actually required intensity.
  
• The test group in Prof. Tabata's study started out less fit than the control group, who were doing steady-state cardio. Thus their larger gains may simply have occurred because they had more room to improve. Note the point that although their percentage gains were larger than the control group, they still finished the study with a lower absolute level of fitness than the steady state control group! They made gains, but they did not catch up to the initially fitter controls.
  
• Even the test group doing the interval workout also included a day of steady state cardio in their overall program. This may have contributed to some of the gains they achieved, rather than the interval workout being responsible for all of it.
  
• Finally, the test subjects only made substantial gains during the first few weeks, then improvement levelled off. This again may point to their simply having been in worse shape to begin with.

So I'm sure intervals/tabatas can give you a good workout, but they're not the panacea they're often touted as, and probably most people who say they're doing tabatas actually aren't working hard enough for it to really count.

[Rockfella]

Nice informative post. I guess it is true that in fitness everything works but for a certain amount of time. Nevertheless it worked for me (no way I was doing the original TABATA, just doing sprints with 5 mins rests in between, lost 3 kgs in flat 15-20 days .. it was maybe water or whatever I lost 2" off my waist too) After I started 5 x5s I used to run for 15 mins on the treadmill 2xweek saw 0 results. So for me HIIT is the way and I will try to get into that groove of doing HIIT 2 times a week.. though this time I will gradually grow into it coz I don't want any injuries. HIIT left me limping last time when I did it. I seriously hate running on the TM Also the fact is that a lot of people do HIIT with BW exercises and weights which is not the way it should be done. SPRINTINg is the way i guess. I conclude : "Regardless of your sport or activity, or if you just want to get fit your training regime must have VARIETY" = copied from the link itself.

There are a lot of myths out there about tabatas, I ran across a good article on this topic just recently:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/effects-of-moderate-intensity-endurance-and-high-intensity-intermittent-training-on-anaerobic-capacity-and-vo2-max.html

Basic takeaways are that in the actual study by Prof. Tabata,

• the test subjects were doing the intense part of the workout at 170% of VO2 max on a stationary bicycle with heavy resistance. Most people supposedly doing tabatas by jumping rope or doing unweighted squats are simply not achieving the actually required intensity.
  
• The test group in Prof. Tabata's study started out less fit than the control group, who were doing steady-state cardio. Thus their larger gains may simply have occurred because they had more room to improve. Note the point that although their percentage gains were larger than the control group, they still finished the study with a lower absolute level of fitness than the steady state control group! They made gains, but they did not catch up to the initially fitter controls.
  
• Even the test group doing the interval workout also included a day of steady state cardio in their overall program. This may have contributed to some of the gains they achieved, rather than the interval workout being responsible for all of it.
  
• Finally, the test subjects only made substantial gains during the first few weeks, then improvement levelled off. This again may point to their simply having been in worse shape to begin with.

So I'm sure intervals/tabatas can give you a good workout, but they're not the panacea they're often touted as, and probably most people who say they're doing tabatas actually aren't working hard enough for it to really count.

[ulbonado]

Hey Rockfella, yes, I think 15mins running 2xweek is probably not enough to accomplish much. When I'm focussed on running, I tend to do 30-45min 4x or 5xweek. And the control group in the actual Tabata study, the ones doing the steady-state cardio, did 60min 5xweek.

So intervals are at the very least a time-saver, which is actually worth a lot to many of us with jobs, studies, families, or whatever. They're just not magic, is all.

[Rockfella]

Yup i agree, i workout before office so i can't imagine running for 30 + mins after doing 5 x 5s and go to work soon after that.

Hey Rockfella, yes, I think 15mins running 2xweek is probably not enough to accomplish much. When I'm focussed on running, I tend to do 30-45min 4x or 5xweek. And the control group in the actual Tabata study, the ones doing the steady-state cardio, did 60min 5xweek.

So intervals are at the very least a time-saver, which is actually worth a lot to many of us with jobs, studies, families, or whatever. They're just not magic, is all.