Can you lose fat with high carbs?

[JB123]

As title really - I want to know.

Can you lose weight eating high carbs, adequate protein and moderate fats? *providing you are creating a calorie deficit

If not, why?

[Bman1]

What do you mean by "high" carbs? I've lost ~35 pounds of fat since January. Based on estimates of BF I have taken over that time and accounting for the margin of error, I have lost no more than 1 pound of lean body mass and may have gained as much as 6 pounds of LBM during that time.

I try to get 0.8 to 1 g protein per pound body weight, reasonable amounts of fats (typically around 25% of my daily intake, though it varies between 20 and 35+%, and the balance is from carbs, typically 40-55% of my daily intake. Now my carbs are mostly from vegetables, legumes, fruits & berries, whole grain products(e.g., oatmeal, whole wheat bread), milk or fruit juice. I only eat white bread or other products made from refined flour or other high glycemic carbs (e.g., potatoes) occassionally but I don't avoid them entirely. I also try to avoid foods with added sugar or high fructose corn syrup. I lift heavy 3 days per week and get some form of cardio, ranging from 45 minute walks to 2.5 hour mountain bike rides on a nearly daily basis.

So if by "high" carbs you mean 45-55% of total calories, then the answer is a resounding yes from my personal experience (of course YMMV).

[killerdude494949]

You can lose fat with high carbs, but I advise against trying. Low carb is the way to go. Consider the anabolic diet.

[JB123]

Hi,

Bman1:
By high carbs I mean say, you weigh 200lbs. You consume 200G of protein, and you consume more carbs than protein (say 300, low gi wholegrain complex carbs for example). Congrats on your success!

killerdude494949:
Ok, *why* do you advise against trying? *Why* is low carb the way to go? And if it can't be sucessfull, how has Bman1 managed to lose 35lbs of fat since Jan?

[Dickhouse]

'High' will be relative to every person, but I'd say no.

Your body won't utilise it's fat stores if it's got an adequate supply of energy from carbs, unless you are doing A LOT of cardio. Additionally, if you've got a cal deficit and still have carbs as a large percentage of your macro intake you're either very big and lean already, chemically assisted or just doing it wrong lol.

[JB123]

Right, so why have I been told that as long as you meet your calories (on a deficit) you will lose fat - regardless of your macros. But keeping protein ~ 1G per Lb/s BW to retain muscle?

[Rokku]

Calories in vs calories out is what affects weight loss. That's all. Some people have problems with carbs increasing their sugar levels, and making them eat more to avoid crashing, which is why they (and I count myself here) find high-carb diets hard to lose weight on. But you can lose weight on any kind of diet if your calories in are lower than your calories out.

[Sam277]

Right, so why have I been told that as long as you meet your calories (on a deficit) you will lose fat - regardless of your macros. But keeping protein ~ 1G per Lb/s BW to retain muscle?

You will lose weight; any calorie deficit leads to fat loss. Is it the best method? Well really you need to read up for yourself, but very briefly, here are a couple of reasons.

When you eat high amounts of carbs it spikes your insulin (raising blood sugar levels). Now there are very big pros and cons to doing this. Spiked insulin levels means that your liver, muscle and fat cells will take in more nutrients, hence why carbohydrate is used in bulking, high protein intake combined with muscle cells readily taking in more nutrients can only be good, right?

However, if you constantly eat carbs your pancreas is going to be secreting insulin into your system all day long, meaning your fat cells are taking in fat all day long. It's for this reason that eating high-carb diets aren't the best way to lose fat; your body will be reluctant to release the fat as your cells are being encouraged to store energy. And because of this, your body will be reluctant to use your energy to to create more muscle cells, as a calorie deficit means your body is in starvation mode, meaning it will use calories for maintanence first. If you couple this with with spiked insulin then you have reduced muscle growth (in terms of speed) and reduced fat loss. If you've been told that eating 1g of protein/lb of bodyweight whilst eating under maintenance will retain muscle mass then you've read the wrong articles. Yuo want more than this if you body is in survival mode, you don't want to give your body a reason to catabolise muscle whilst in it's already catabolic state.

A bigger problem is that eventually a high carb diet will reduce the sensitivity of your insulin; your body just won't react as sharply to it. Then guess what, you've just lose the benefits listed above; you need your insulin to remain as sensitive as it can be. What happens when your insulin becomes useless? You end up with type diabetes. It's just 1 of the end results of being fat and eating crap. It's still vital to eat carbs though, since your body will be using them as the primary source of fuel during high intensity exercise.

*****Just remember though that this is the science at it's minimum and each individual reacts slightly differently. Having said that, this is how the body reacts chemically, and therfor this will probably hold true.*****

Hence why carbs are best eaten post workout with protein. Insulin is just as important as testosterone.

[JB123]

Thanks for the detailed response!!

You mention about it raising your insulin levels... thats true for Simple Carbs right? What about Complex... does it solve the issue as they're slow-releasing? - meaning its not spiking the insulin as sharply as simple carbs?

Sorry, just curious

[Sam277]

It is true that some carbs will spike insulin a lot more than others.

For example, dextrose, which is a sugar that very rapidly sends insulin levels sky high. For this reason a lot of people have liquid dextrose + whey protein after their workout, because after your workout your muscle cells will take on more nutrients than usual, but insulin drops during intense exercise. Spiking insulin post workout means that you can make the most of your muscles taking in more nutrients.

I think really, if you want to eat carbs, stick to rice, pasta and potatoes, this is of course whilst eating as much fruit and veg as you can push down. Bread is, very sadly, not the best of ideas. You just have to get creative to replace it. I think wraps are probably the best replacement, as they are very low in carbs, can be used for sandwiches and pizza. I did also try a cauliflower pizza base, which was very nice, and you still avoid storing too much fat.

**Ahem. This next bit is going to get bit geeky. Aha **

Basically, simple carbs are either mono(or di)saccharides, meaning it's just 1 sugar, or 2 joined together. A complex carb is a polysaccharide, poly is more than 2. It's the chain length that determines how quickly a molecule is digested, and hence how quickly it spikes insulin.

Now a simple carb is typically between 5 and 12 carbons long, usually in a hexagonal or pentagonal ring (or 2 joined together). A lipid (fats) can be 24 carbon atoms or longer. Because of the short chain length, carbs are used as the primary fuel. But it's not just black and white, the majority type of saturated fat in coconut oil has a very short chain, and hence is digested as a primary fuel; that's right, a saturated fat that doesn't lead to heart disease!

Proteins can be 120 carbons long, this is why protein takes a long time to digest.

So yes, simple carbs are much worse than complex carbs.

[JB123]

Wow.. you know your shizzle. .

Thing is, I'm trying to do it on a budget, which is why I mentioned about eating more carbs. I can just afford to eat my bodyweight's worth in grams of protein (170G) lol but that doesn't count for enough calories to get me out of the 'extreme diet' i've been on (~1200 cal average).

I've purchased wholemeal pitta, wholewheat pasta, wholemeal bread to help me get those carbs up and thought I'd better ask! So providing I only stick to complex carbs and perhaps simple w/ protein shake post workout I will be fine?

My main aim is to lose fat, even if its not as optimally as possible with high-carb at present its the most affordable and if I can lose 1lb/s fat per week thats fine.

Thank you very much for your reply, really is appriciated!

[Sam277]

Eating protein on a budget, means buying the cheapest you can. Tescos is brilliant if your strapped for cash. All links from tescos online.

340g Corned beef - 85g protein, 765 kcal, £1.31
2 cans of tuna 84g protein, 258kcal, £1.18
15 value eggs Per Egg: 6.9g protein, 85 kcal, £0.10 // Per Tray: 103.5g protein, 1275 kcal, £1.45
200g Peanuts 50g protein, 1200kcal, £0.27
4 pints of whole milk 60g protein, 800kcal, £1.53

5 rediculously cheap forms of protein, take you pick which you want to include in your diet, then fill the rest of it with fruit and veg, pastas/ rice/ spuds, this is where the carbs should come from. If you really want bread type foods i'd advise going for pittas and wraps. You'll get plenty of fat from the listed items.

[JB123]

Thank you for your time

Getting the eggs already lol! Peanuts... I didn't know that they were ok to eat? I love 'em I just get told to have mixed nuts which I find really bland and don't enjoy them at all.

Thanks for clearing it up and i'll definatley stick to create a deficit and see how it goes maybe i'll start a log

[Sam277]

Thank you for your time

Getting the eggs already lol! Peanuts... I didn't know that they were ok to eat? I love 'em I just get told to have mixed nuts which I find really bland and don't enjoy them at all.

Thanks for clearing it up and i'll definatley stick to create a deficit and see how it goes maybe i'll start a log

Np man.

Peanuts are high in fats, healthy fats, but are probably better for bulking. Off the top of my head it's the cheapest protein i can think off.

PYeah i log's a good idea, good to get feedback and there's a lot of really good guys on these boards

[Bman1]

JB (and Sam) -

The whole blood sugar/insulin response thing is actual a fair bit more complicated than put forth by Sam (though he got a good bit of it right). For example, while only carbs lead to an immediate spike in blood sugar ( and thence a release of insulin), high protein foods, such as beef and fish also lead to a release of insulin. Keeping insulin low is not the be-all-end-all of weight loss unless you have already screwed up your metabolism and become insulin resistant. The number one key to any fat loss are to establish a calorie defecit, period. Beyond that, making sure you have adequate protein and regular resistance training helps ensure that you preserve as much LBM as possible. Do low carb diets work, absolutely! (provided there is a calorie deficit). But so can diets which have reasonable amounts of good carbs(veggies, fruits, legumes, and whole grains), provided there is a calorie defecit.

My personal opinion is that one problem with complex carbs (e.g., breads, potatoes, etc.) is that they are extremely calorie dense compared to their weight. For example, one medium sized bagel has approximately the same # of calories as 6 oz of lean sirloin, but most people would think the sirloin has much more because it seems heavier. Therefore, a lot of people just munch away on carb-rich foods without understanding the # of calories they are eating, leading to excess calories. This is just my opinion though.

For a fairly thorough primer on the ins and outs of nutrition and how the body processes different types of food, check out http://www.bodyrecomposition.com . The thing I like about this site is that the author supports his positions with direct reference to actual research rather than relying on "broscience" like you see at many sites.