Confused about Bench Press technique..

[mutt]

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_arti ... press_cure

Watch the video & read article.

[bigwhat62]

dave tate is the man. pure genius in lifting, teaching and business running.

[Warriorpoet]

Is it just me or are there two styles of BP akin to high bar and low bar squats? Seems like he favored a closer grip with a diagonal bar path. Unless Im mistaken, Rip favors a slightly wider grip with elbows slightly further from the body, with a more vertical bar path. Is there actually a difference? Are there discrepencies in joint safety or pushing effeciency?

[muddy]

Yeah, imho Tate and Rip are describing two different approaches. Someone posted this link on Rip's forum, and he didn't have much to say other than "some very good stuff in there".

My $0.02 is Rip is coaching the beginner, and is concerned about getting the bench stronger from the point of view of a beginner. Tate is coaching people who are trying to compete, and hence talking about much heavier weights, and dealing with getting stronger from the point of view of PL competition.

I followed Rip's guidance until my bench got into the upper 200s, especially on keeping the elbows flared out pretty far (but not 90 degress), tapping the bar pretty high up on the chest, and ensuring the hand position on the bar allowed vertical forearms at the bottom to get the max range of motion. Breaking the 300 mark, I started to feel exactly what Tate warns about with the shoulder, and so I modified the lift to tuck the elbows much more during the descent, and as a result the bar taps my chest much lower than with Rip's method. The nagging ache that was developing in my left shoulder went away as a result. 300+ is nowhere near PL competition level, but it was enough to start messing with my shoulder.

[Mehdi]

Remember powerlifters use gear (suits). Technique is different when lifting raw.

Also rip doesn't like too much arch in the upper-back it seems. I arch as much as I can, more weight for me.

[LiftingNerd]

To bench with the slightly closer grip, a tight back, and driving through your hips with your feet takes an amount of proprioception and muscle control that the population Rip deals with just won't have, so there is no need to teach it that way. Plus if you are working with athletes strengthening the shoulders through a total range of motion is more important than putting mass amounts of weight on the bar.

[TempestTenor]

I actually submitted a post to the Rippetoe earlier today regarding this video and the differences between some of Dave Tate's teachings and Rippetoe's teachings. I eagerly await an answer.

[ricepower]

Since starting SL I guess ive been mostly benching the 'wrong' way, pressing from the nipple area with wide grip to compensate for bone spurs in both of my shoulders which click. I only decided to fix this recently and decided to really look at form. I have tried benching the 'proper' way, 45degree arms, pressing from bottom of pecs and with chest pushed out/shoulder blades back. It feels a lot more stable, helthier and more effective. But I have dropped a few kg (which is ok)

My problem however is im a little confused about the path of the bar. In Mehdi's tips he writes:

Press in a Straight Line. Don’t look at the bar. Fix a point at the ceiling. Press the bar in a straight line above your chest, not towards your face. Keep the bar above your elbows during the whole lift.

If you try to press in a straight line beginning at lower chest, at the end position your arms are pointing forwards at an angle and your elbows are definetely not below the bar. The only way to keep elbows below the bar is for the barbell to be coming towards your face as you extend arms, so at the end position your arms are vertical. The only other way would be to press with bent wrists BB style.

So what is the correct way? Should arms be vertical at end position or tilted forwards?

[Faraz]

Check this by Dave tate, he addresses your questions in the video and the article.

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_arti ... press_cure

[Dada]

Check this by Dave tate, he addresses your questions in the video and the article.

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_arti ... press_cure

Yes! 100% do this ^

[Mehdi]

This is an article from Dave Tate from years ago, long before Starting Strength was released. It's how I learned to bench and it's also the advice in starting strength.

4 — Push the bar in a straight line.

Try to push the bar toward your feet. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line, right? Then why in the world would some coaches advocate pressing in a "J" line toward the rack? If I were to bench the way most trainers are advocating (with my elbows out, bringing the bar down to the chest and pressing toward the rack) my barbell travel distance would be 16 inches. Now, if I pull my shoulder blades together, tuck my chin and elbows, and bring the bar to my upper abdominals or lower chest, then my pressing distance is only 6.5 inches. Now which would you prefer? If you want to push up a bar-bending load of plates, you'd choose the shorter distance.

Here's another important aspect of pressing in this style. By keeping your shoulder blades together and your chin and elbows tucked, you'll have less shoulder rotation when compared to the J-line method of pressing. This is easy to see by watching how low the elbows drop in the bottom part of the press when the barbell is on the chest. With the elbows out, most everyone's elbows are far lower than the bench. This creates a tremendous amount of shoulder rotation and strain.

Now try the same thing with the elbows tucked and shoulder blades together while bringing the barbell to your upper abdominals. For most people, the elbows are usually no lower than the bench. Less shoulder rotation equals less strain on the shoulder joint. This means pressing bigger weights for many more years. I've always been amazed at trainers that suggest only doing the top half of the bench press, i.e. stopping when the upper arms are parallel to the floor. This is done to avoid the excess shoulder rotation. All they have to do is teach their clients the proper way to bench in the first place!

source: http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_arti ... ep_program

So it seems Dave Tate changed his mind, which is cool to see there are people thinking and who aren't afraid to try new things. I've been practicing pressing like Tate mentions in the article for a few weeks now. Tate says it's easier on the shoulders, and I feel it is too. It also feels like I can be faster on the way up. The whole idea of the elbow thing got me thinking on the overhead press too, where I've started to put my elbows more out once the bar reaches about nose level. Seems like the movement is a lot more powerful there too.

I'm committed to have information on the site that works. I've already been rewriting several articles because of this and plan to rewrite more of them, including the exercise technique articles. But the above stuff needs more experimentation.

[Psilomadman]

I like those interlocking plates! They just look cool.

[TempestTenor]

A number of other people posed similar questions to Rippetoe regarding the differences between Dave Tate's technique and his own technique. True to form, Rippetoe gave a vague response to the tune of "while we have some differences, Dave's video shows some excellent cues"

[Dada]

I like those interlocking plates! They just look cool.

Yeah, those are about the coolest plates I've ever seen. I'm sure they are expensive though!

About the Dave Tate technique. When I first read his original "Bench 500 Easy" article back in the day, I started using that technique when I used to lift a lot more than I do now. It did help me a lot and the narrower grip and bar placement was much easier on my shoulders. I sort of lost the technique a bit though in the last few years but am trying to get back into it. Seems like the one thing that changed the most is instead of pressing the bar straight up, he now advocates pressing more towards the head. Going to take a little while to get used to that. But I'll do it b/c his articles have helped me plenty of times before.

[ricepower]

Now I am way MORE confused. Tate is absolutely contradicting himself, in the video saying to press towards the rack in a J shape and in his older article saying that such pressing is moronic. Also it seems the fundamental thing about Tates Bench pressing reccomendations are that they are for competitive powerlifting, reducing the range of motion and maximising the weight.

But what is the best way to bench as a strength exercise? Surely letting elbows fall as low as possible to INCREASE range of motion is a good thing? Thats one of the thing I though I was sure about as that is like proper push ups and rippetoe recommends it too.

Mehdi, are you suggesting that we should just experiment and find what is best for us? I dont think I can decide, id really appreciate a reccomended method.