DB Press sooo much harder than BB Bench Press

[wapoti]

Is benching 1.5x BW a reasonable goal? How much of BW would you likely need to be able to squat before you can BB bench 1.5x BW? Why does SL advocate squats 3x a week but not pressing with the same frequency?

[atypical1]

1.5BW is a very reasonable goal. It will take a while to acheive but it's something you can do if you put forth the effort and time. There's not really a correlation between how much you can bench and how much you can squat.

james

[wapoti]

I've been on SL for a year now and while I have managed to take my poor-form, light weight squat from 135 to a 5x5 best of 295 a week ago, I feel like my bench is lagging with a best of 200lbs 5x5 max. BTW, I'm 5'9 180 14.5% BF. My ego is dying to hit 225 so I can put the two plates on the bar, but I'm really struggling to get there. I get between 7 and 8 hours of sleep a night and eat 6 clean meals plus a protein shake. I've watched the Dave Tate video over and over and following his advice I got from 185 bench to the 200 where I've currently stalled. I read in Men's Health some study found that alternating reps between 5, 10 and 15 led to a 15% increase in stregth and I am currently giving this a go round. Like I said it's killing me not being able to add any lbs to my current best of 200. I'm in the middle of a de-load, re-build at the moment. I haven't used any creatine and would rather not. Any advice?

[Mehdi]

I've been on SL for a year now and while I have managed to take my poor-form, light weight squat from 135 to a 5x5 best of 295 a week ago, I feel like my bench is lagging with a best of 200lbs 5x5 max. BTW, I'm 5'9 180 14.5% BF. My ego is dying to hit 225 so I can put the two plates on the bar, but I'm really struggling to get there. I get between 7 and 8 hours of sleep a night and eat 6 clean meals plus a protein shake. I've watched the Dave Tate video over and over and following his advice I got from 185 bench to the 200 where I've currently stalled. I read in Men's Health some study found that alternating reps between 5, 10 and 15 led to a 15% increase in stregth and I am currently giving this a go round. Like I said it's killing me not being able to add any lbs to my current best of 200. I'm in the middle of a de-load, re-build at the moment. I haven't used any creatine and would rather not. Any advice?

If you can 5x5 200lbs, you can already lift 225lbs for 1 rep.

[wapoti]

Ah, I guess I was unclear, I meant 5x5 225.

[LiftingNerd]

I've been on SL for a year now and while I have managed to take my poor-form, light weight squat from 135 to a 5x5 best of 295 a week ago, I feel like my bench is lagging with a best of 200lbs 5x5 max. BTW, I'm 5'9 180 14.5% BF. My ego is dying to hit 225 so I can put the two plates on the bar, but I'm really struggling to get there. I get between 7 and 8 hours of sleep a night and eat 6 clean meals plus a protein shake. I've watched the Dave Tate video over and over and following his advice I got from 185 bench to the 200 where I've currently stalled. I read in Men's Health some study found that alternating reps between 5, 10 and 15 led to a 15% increase in stregth and I am currently giving this a go round. Like I said it's killing me not being able to add any lbs to my current best of 200. I'm in the middle of a de-load, re-build at the moment. I haven't used any creatine and would rather not. Any advice?

So what are you doing now? How many times have you deloaded? Have you switched to 3x5 to keep progress going?

[wapoti]

I've deloaded twice. Well I'm keeping with SL except for chest so for my ABA workouts when I do chest my workouts have been as follows

Wk 1
Mon
goal 5x5 @ 200. This was 3rd attempt and managed 3x5, 1x4, 1x3 so I decided to de-load and try the MH program of sets of 5, 10 & 15.
Fri
goal 4x10 @175, managed 2x10, 1x8, 1x7

Wk2
Wed
goal 3x15 @ 135, managed 2X15, 1x12. Did as many as I could for another two sets, don't remember what I hit

Wk 3
Mon
goal 5x5 185, managed 5x5 185 easy, so week 5 I upped it to 195
Fri
goal 4x10 @ 175, managed 2x10, 1x9, 1x8

Wk 4
Wed
goal 3x15 @135, managed 2X15, 1x12 . Did as many as I could for another two sets, don't remember what I hit

Wk 5
Mon--supposed to be heavy day but bench was taken for too long so I went w/DB but went heavy 5x5
5x5 x 80lb DB
Fri (yesterday)--went heavy w/the bench to make up for Mon
goal 5x5 @195--I hit all reps/sets with ease and I have a slight cold at the moment. This is 5lbs off of where I had failed and I don't remember 195 being this easy last time around. In retrospect I think I could have hit 5x5 @ 200.

I'm going to try and keep with this variation until I plateau at my heaviest 5x5 again as an experiment of sorts. In addition to the above I always do some sort of assistance exercise changing it up each time from weighted dips to dumbell flies, dumbell presses and pushups.

[LiftingNerd]

Why not just change to 3x5 to keep linear progress? The extra volume you're doing isn't really giving you much extra rest.

[wapoti]

I guess I never thought about it to be honest. How would that work? 3x5 until I plateau at 3x5 then go back and try 5x5 at the weights I couldn't hit before and then work 5x5 until I plateau again? Also I got the impression the sets of 5, 10 and 15 isn't so much to allow for rest as it is to develop strength, mass and endurance.

[LiftingNerd]

You go with 3x5 until you plateau, deload, 3x5 until you plateau, deload again, and do 3x5 until you plateau one last time. The last time you plateau will probably be the extent to which you can take the linear progression. Just so we are on the same page a plateau is when you have tried the same weight for 3 consecutive sessions and missed getting all sets of 5 each session. A deload should be at least 15lbs being taken off the bar.

All those sets of 10 and 15 are slowing down your progress. Yes, there will be a time where sets of 10 and 15 will be needed to help your bench press. Now is not that time. Either deload back down to 185 for your next workout and start from there going for 3x5, or pick up 3x5 with where you are now and go until you plateau.

[Rockfella]

Is this your experience saying or someone elses? Never the less i will try it myself!

The key to a barbell bench press is being able to contract the back strongly, trying to tear the bar apart. This creates a very rigid & stable setup where you do not have to worry about each dumbell swinging in different directions.

My 1RM on barbell is 60kg, max on DB is 22.5kg each hand.

[Rockfella]

Because heavy squat is the best single exercise one can do! Next is DLs. One of the things i have noticed after doing 5 X 5 for 2 months. When i started it in september (after a shoulder injury) i could not do bent over rows with good form, so i switched to inverted rows. Now since my squats and DLs have gone up, i can do bent rows with good form, i don't feel as if the barbell is trying to throw me forward while lifting it in BRs! Basically almost everything mentioned by Mehdi in the 5 x 5s is extremely well thought is what i mean. It is almost impossible to start with bent over rows with 40kgs specially if one is just starting out, inverted rows are much easier and got me started ...................... one can switch over to BRs later. Soon i will set-up a home gym already have a lof of weight, need a power rack.

Is benching 1.5x BW a reasonable goal? How much of BW would you likely need to be able to squat before you can BB bench 1.5x BW? Why does SL advocate squats 3x a week but not pressing with the same frequency?

[wapoti]

LiftingNerd, I guess you're making me come to terms with something I have been trying to avoid: the end of my success with the SL beginner's program. I guess it is time to move on to the intermediate program, I just wanted to get further with the beginner's program. As for the plateau, yes I tried the 5x5 and didn't hit it 3x in a row before I deloaded. My earlier recap was abbreviated from the de-load forward. What actually happened to me was that I had hit 200 5x5 back in August? and went on to attempt 205 5x5. I failed 3x, de-loaded but was then unable to hit 200 5x5 after progressing from 180 back to 200. I think what I am going to do is make the attempt at 200 for 5x5 and if I fail I'll go 3x5 as you recommended above and once I wrap that up I'll switch over to the intermediate program.

In your reply above you mentioned there will be a time where sets of 10 and 15 will be necessary, when is that time?

[LiftingNerd]

In your reply above you mentioned there will be a time where sets of 10 and 15 will be necessary, when is that time?

That is a very good question. My answer is, I have no idea. After you've squeezed every pound out of linear progression that you can you can choose to go any route you wish. It's just silly to not get the most you can out of what you're doing now by starting to complicate things too early.

[Myloka19]

I really never use dumbbells (not to imply they are ineffective). The barbell bench press can definitely exercise your chest hard. At least for me, it seems my chest gets most of the work. I suppose tehcnique has to do with it - where you lower the bar, if you let the bar touch your chest (which you should, that's how you really emphasize the chest). On my last point, I do not think you will really harm your shoulders by letting the bar touch the chest. I only feel the stretch in my shoulders during my warm up set. Afterwards, they are fine and my chest is always sore the next day.