Eating Big to Gain Strength

[Cleave]

(I know this is the Strength Training Section but I think it belongs here more than nutrition.)

We often talk about eating big to get big or eating more as it relates to skinny guys trying to put on weight. But us big buys have to eat big to get stronger too.

In my own unscientific experience, I've gotten stronger while eating more calories. Well, ok Capt. Obvious no shit!

Those of you that have known me for a while know that I came to StrongLifts after losing a bunch of weight but still as a bigger guy, needing to lose a few more. I struggled a lot when I started. I struggled a lot for the first year of weight training. I attribute it to a lot of things but one thing I never considered were calories. I was trying to stay at a deficit and strength train at the same time. I've tinkered with my diet a ton, cycling, adding and removing carbs and so on, but this summer I kind of fell off the wagon as far as my diet goes. I haven't been terrible, just a few more cheats than I would like but for the most part ate pretty well and mostly kept up with my workouts. My workouts have been much more consistent the last month or so, my diet is still a little off but all of a sudden I've made significant strength gains. I squatted 250lbs 5x5 the other day! I was stuck around 175 for a long time, then just shot up quickly to 235, hovered there for a few weeks then just made it to 250! I have to wonder if my calorie excess has helped? Unfortunately I'm back to 36 waist pants after making it down to 34's but my wife says I look beefier and not fatter so maybe I need not sorry about my pant sizes so much.

So my point is make sure your eating enough. If your not getting stronger or making the gains you expect and you feel like your workouts are good, then try eating a little more. Eating more may be what your muscles need to grow. If your already a big guy, don't worry so much. If your working the StrongLift program your not going to gain much fat if you over do your calories by a little.

[rpaulson7]

Nice work on the Squat gains.

I agree with your points. If you lift every other day but don't eat enough, you'll just maintain where you're at and not show improvement.

Since I've started SL 5x5, I also had to go shopping for more pants. My waist and thighs got bigger, but it's not due to fat. It's due to adding muscle around the core and getting bigger, not because I'm getting fat. And of course my thighs, after doing hundreds of squats, just didn't fit into my old jeans.

Keep it up! Drink milk! Eat big!

[BerserkerRage]

Your absolutely right,i was overweight and looking to cut down and i used sl 5x5 to maintain muscle.I was able to get the newbie gains on a deficit but later it was impossible to gain strength.I came down to a waist size of 28 from 42 in 18 months.Recently i went on my first bulk,the strength i gained was ridiculous.The OHP which i was stuck at 42.5 kgs for 5x5 the entire year i was able to increase to 47.5 for 5x5 in just 1 month.Of course i have put on some fat but a lot of muscle as well.I am now going on a cut.
It would be fun to just keep on bulking but cant let the fat gain get too out of hand.

[NorthstarUK]

You must have caloric excess to get stronger. Period.

Most people get the eating plenty of protein mantra but many fail to get the calorie deficit rationale. People fail to realise that if there is not an excess of calories then the protein will be used as fuel and not for growth.

[atypical1]

This post should be mandatory reading.

james

[MikeD]

Lack of cals is pretty much why I plateaued where I did. No, it wasn't for abs, I just wanted to compete eventually at 165.

But I've learned. Good post.

[raecz]

okay, so if I want to get stronger for a long time, I have to eat big. but if I want to lose fat, I have to eat less, don't I? and if this is my goal and I plateau this means I'm preserving my muscles & strength and lose fat, doesn't it? my conclusion: it's the goal that determines you're diet..

[atypical1]

okay, so if I want to get stronger for a long time, I have to eat big. but if I want to lose fat, I have to eat less, don't I? and if this is my goal and I plateau this means I'm preserving my muscles & strength and lose fat, doesn't it? my conclusion: it's the goal that determines you're diet..

You're conclusion is correct. You don't have to necessarily eat less to lose fat though as it's about eating right. Your last premise about hitting a plateau doesn't make sense to me. Can you elaborate on it?

james

[jfh26]

Nice post, cleave. I'm in that same boat where my diet is a bit off but for the most part OK, so it's nice to hear from someone else who was in that situation. My lifts are still progressing, but I know they'll go up smoother and faster if I can just get more food into me. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[raecz]

@james: I think you got my statement totally wrong. Because I thought you have to eat less calories than you use if you want to lose fat. You are saying that as long as you eat the right things, it's gonna work out. I don't think so.. but I agree that you can't always stay in a caloric deficit but have to show the body that you do not starve, so it can get rid of its energy deposits (fat)

[Soofy]

Nice post. I love eating so lifting is great for me.

[tarun]

@james: I think you got my statement totally wrong. Because I thought you have to eat less calories than you use if you want to lose fat. You are saying that as long as you eat the right things, it's gonna work out. I don't think so.. but I agree that you can't always stay in a caloric deficit but have to show the body that you do not starve, so it can get rid of its energy deposits (fat)

Regardless of whether you eat "clean" or junk, if you eat more calories than maintenance, you WILL put on fat. A 500 calorie big mac that you eat over maintenance will put on the same amount of fat as a 500 calorie salad. Now that said, its usually easier to EAT MORE healthy food and still be under maintenance than it is with junk food (500 calories in a big mac, that would be a decent amount of chicken breast that would be more filling than just 1 big mac)

[atypical1]

Regardless of whether you eat "clean" or junk, if you eat more calories than maintenance, you WILL put on fat. A 500 calorie big mac that you eat over maintenance will put on the same amount of fat as a 500 calorie salad. Now that said, its usually easier to EAT MORE healthy food and still be under maintenance than it is with junk food (500 calories in a big mac, that would be a decent amount of chicken breast that would be more filling than just 1 big mac)

That's simply not true. There is a huge difference between eating a big mac and a salad (especially if that salad is spinach, chicken, some nuts, olive oil). 500KCALs of just protein and fat is vastly different than 500KCALs of fat, protein, and simple carbs. Let's also set the record straight here, you NEED caloric excess in order to build muscle. Let me repeat that. You NEED caloric excess in order to build muscle.

Saying you WILL put on fat is also not necessarily true. If you're very precise about it you can figure out just how much of an excess that you need in order to build muscle and not get fat. Part of this depends upon your current BF level too. So if you're 33% bf you have a built in caloric excess that you can draw from. But if you're at 14% then you're going to need that excess. But that excess need not make you fat.

There's also a big, big misconception with regard to BF percentage and how much fat you'll gain eating an excess of calories. If you're busting your ass in the gym then that excess isn't going to turn into a 10% bump in your body fat (unless you have a ridiculous excess). It's entirely possible to have caloric excess and still maintain a pretty lean physique but you have to be smart about it.

Here's another interesting article:

http://stronglifts.com/madcow/Topics/Di ... ric_Excess

james

[tarun]

Ok, you are adding things in there that I wasn't referring to. When I said if you eat over maintenance that you will gain fat, I was being generic...I did not add in the factor of lifting weights. Whether you will put on a lot of fat (even with heavy lifting) will depend on how large the calorie surplus is. However, if you do overeat too much, whether its chicken breast or salad with dressing or a big mac, you WILL put on fat. 500kcals overeating of protein WILL turn into fat, just as 500kcals fo carbs will. There's no questioning this, no matter how much people try to argue that "you can eat as much clean food as you want and you won't get fat"

[JasonLB]

Actually, no, 500 extra calories from simple carbs is not the same as 500 extra calories from protein. No one is saying that you can eat as much clean food as you want and not get fat, but not all calories are created equal. The way different macros are metabolized and the different hormonal responses each elicits have varying effects on the body. Human metabolism is very complicated and calories in vs. calories out is a far too simplistic approach.