el_varouza's training log

[somebody]

My suggestion is to tackle one thing at a time and then the pieces should get together.

This is great advice.

If you look at how Rippetoe actually coaches people who send videos to his Q&A, he generally picks out one thing that could stand some improvement. This is how coaches work. Over time, they clean stuff up, but they don't apply a complete critical analysis to each lift, demanding absolute mechanical perfection every time the bar moves. Because you'd drive your clients insane.

You need to coach yourself, not drive yourself insane.

Sometimes, I think the most misquoted passage in the SS book is where he talks about insisting on correct form. What he means is, don't be greedy with the weight. What he does not mean is that you should analyze every inch of the bar path to the point of self-induced paralysis.

[somebody]

Let me also explain why I think this is important.

I suspect that your back rounding when you attempt to deadlift is not a complicated artifact of flexibility issues and limb length and your inability to keep 18 different coaching cues in mind at the same time while you attempt a lift. I think your back is rounding because you have a weak back. You are doing rack pulls because they are easier on your lower back and allow you to lift the kind of weight you feel you should be lifting by now. The problem is that doing this will train you to deadlift more than your lower back can handle and will not address the real issue. The only real way to address the issue is to deadlift, starting with weight you can handle with a rigid back and progressing from there.

Why bother, if you hate the lift? Well, for one thing, I can tell you from personal experience that the easiest way to injure yourself while back squatting is failure to deadlift, leading to an inability to keep your lower back straight (enough) at the bottom of the lift.

Back extensions may help.

[sumoboy]

eLvarouza, couldn't help but notice other members' advice/concern over your deadlift woes. I was in the same position as you, no matter what I did, I just couldn't get in the starting position correctly 100%. I am very flexible as well, so I was really pissed. I learned that my body mechanics just didn't agree with conventional deadlifts. I was really pissed, as I am sure you are - because we all know how important the deadlift is!

One day I discovered sumo deadlifts and never looked back. Have you considered trying these? I know that Stronglifts and most other strength training programs don't use it because it isn't a pure overall strength builder like the conventional deadlift. It hits the legs/hams/glutes/hips more than the conventional DL. It is also harder to round your lower back in sumo because you start with your torso in a more upright position.

One thing I learned is that if you choose to take the sumo route, do not neglect the lower back and be sure to incorporate some barbell goodmornings into your routine so your lower back gets strengthened.

Just giving some advice, hope this helps you out man!

[Chris]

Hi el_varouza -

A quick comment from me - I just looked through a video from Dan John. He is a coach (also recommed by Medih). The video is long, but he gave me som very good points, that really improved my deads (and squats) today.

Here

[eLvarouza]

Hi all,

I have to update my log quickly, but I don't have time at the moment to respond to all the advice here. I'll get to it later tonight or tomorrow, but please don't think I'm ignoring it or whatever; my log is seriously in need of an update before I forget all the poundages and stuff. I really appreciate everything here, and I'll post an update tonight or tomorrow.

Thursday September 4th 2008
Squat: 3x5x170lbs: low bar position messes with my shoulder. Started a thread at Rippetoe's Q&A with more details than I have time to explain here. http://strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2469
Press: 4/4/3x95lbs: noticed my form was wack last time. Fixed it. Shoulder was f-ed up from squats, which didn't help.
Power clean from rack: 5x3x95lbs: noticed I was "deadlifting" on the wrong day

Saturday September 6th 2008
Squat: 3x5x175lbs: last time with low bar. Tried a new grip. Didn't work. Shoulder was in pretty big pain.
Bench press: none, shoulder in too much pain
Deadlift (from rack): 1x5x225lbs: I'm getting close to pulling from the floor (more on this soon, I promise)

Tuesday September 9th 2008
Squat: 3x5x180lbs *PR*: high bar. Less hip. Harder. Annoying. PR incidentally.
Press: 3x5x95lbs *PR*: Knew I could do it if my shoulder wasn't f-ed from squats.
Power clean from rack: 4x3x100lbs: had to stop early cause gym closed. Will try cleaning from floor Saturday. Maybe.

Thursday September 11th 2008
Squat: 3x5x185lbs *PR*: damn high bar is going to make me stall sooner. I need to figure out this shoulder crap. See link above for details.
Bench press: 5/5/3x150lbs *PR*: I'm counting this as a PR because I know I could have gone 3x5 if the gym hadn't closed, and I ran out of time. Bumping the weight up next time. Might microload soon depending on how well 155lbs goes. I had a spotter this time for a handoff (a good spotter who didn't touch my bar ... well I did tell him not to hehe) and it really helped.
Deadlift: none, gym closed, no time

Okay, will post an update on deadlifts and cleans soon. Thanks again for all the responses though.

[somebody]

Sorry to hear about the continuing shoulder issues. Hope they sort you out over on Strengthmill. You might keep experimenting with grip, see if you can get lower without pain.

Power clean from the rack == hang clean a/k/a hang power clean?

[eLvarouza]

Alrighty, figured some shit out.

1. My poor deadlift form was due in part to hamstring inflexibility, and to me just being stupid and not feeling lumbar extension properly. I can deadlift finally, although the weight I'm using is pretty lame compared to my squat. My lower back, as somebody suggested, is weak and needs to catch up. That being said, I feel confident that I increase the deadlift quickly now that I can actually do it.
2. Same for power clean form. I can now power clean, and it's quite fun. I still have form issues with the pull on deadlifts and power cleans, but that's easy enough to fix.
3. I figured out the reason my shoulder was feeling f-ed up on squats was due to the bar being too low and not resting on the delts. I have a video and a few pictures, and I'm thinking about making a post on this elsewhere on the forum to help anyone else who might be having issues. I just figured this out yesterday actually. I got the bar up on my delts for a heavy set and didn't feel any discomfort. Finally.
4. I have elbow pain when I hold the bar now for squats. Fortunately, I know why, and it should be easy to correct.
5. I noticed my bench press form wasn't optimal. I changed it and deloaded.
6. I noticed my squat form wasn't optimal. I changed it and deloaded.
7. I noticed my press form wasn't optimal. I changed it and deloaded.

Anyway I've been busy as all hell and haven't had time to update my log. I'll write out more detailed shit in here later and I'll stay on top of things from now on. In the meantime, here are my most recent numbers:

Squat: 3x5x215lbs (high bar)
Bench press: 3x5x155lbs (odd form, spotter may have helped, so not completely valid)
Press: 3x5x100lbs
Power clean: 5x3x100lbs
Deadlift: 1x5x185lbs

Deloads:
Squat: going to 3x5x200lbs (low bar) to relearn low bar form and bar position
Bench press: 3x5x145lbs to learn better form (my forearms weren't perpendicular to the ground before)
Press: 3x5x100lbs, as I was laying back too far. Not exactly a big deload, but it should suffice.

Aside from that, strength is increasing very well. I'm psyched to start deadlifting and power cleaning. My power clean should increase quickly; I might add 10lbs next training session instead of 5lbs, because 100lbs didn't feel heavy. Deadlifts I might add 10lbs each session depending on how shitty my form is and how weak or strong my back is.

I had about a two week's hiatus from the gym as I was getting a bunch of shoulder/elbow problems from squats and shit and I had exams. Now I'm back on track, and it's about damn time. I was starting to lose my normally ravenous appetite, and that was quite upsetting. Going from easily eating 4 plates of food + 3 glasses of whole milk for dinner to 2 plates + 2 glasses just sucks. It's time for GOMAD again and getting serious now that, for the first time, I can actually perform all five movements correctly. How bout that? I'm psyched.

[somebody]

"not feeling lumbar extension properly" != stupid. Good to see you back.

[danmarmu]

I agree with "somebody". All of us have beat ourselves up over stuff. Now you are done, lifting well from what I can tell from your log. Just keep going. You will make the gains soon enough. Good luck and keep it up.

[eLvarouza]

Apparently I can't fix my elbow/shoulder pain on low bar squats. I might try once more than say fuck it and go the high-bar route. Think my wrists were bending all over the place when I was trying low bar last.

Monday October 13 2008

Didn't do shit cause elbows were so fucked up from squats my arms were numb.

Wednesday October 15 2008

Squat: none, stupid groin is pulled somehow, couldn't get below quarter squat depth without a ton of pain
Bench press: 3x5x150lbs: newer form
Deadlift: 1x5x195lbs: form f-ed up, should be easy to correct

Friday October 17 2008

Squat: none, stupid groin
Press: 3x5x95lbs: easy
Power clean: 5x3x105lbs: form fucked up. Back too vertical in jumping position. Feet going out too wide on catch. Upsetting.

[somebody]

You might try ditching the thumbless grip and going with a standard grip on the squats.

[eLvarouza]

Is that the grip powerlifters tend to use?

I'm pretty sure my elbows were loaded because my thumbs weren't on top of the bar and my wrists were bending like crazy. I'll give it one last try on Monday, then go to high bar squatting, because my groin should be healed by then, and not squatting pisses me off.

[somebody]

Just throwing out ideas for things you might do to fiddle with your grip without switching exercises entirely.

Rippetoe's grip is good, don't get me wrong. Especially for a beginner, it reinforces the fact that you're not using your hands to hold the weight up, you're using them to hold the bar in place on your back. And it tends to give you a nice, tight set. But that's not much use if you can't do the exercise.

I switched from thumbless to thumbs around because someone who was coaching me suggested it. Now that I'm used to it, I'm thinking about switching back, because the temptation to bend the wrists is starting to annoy me. But does seem easier on the shoulders.

[eLvarouza]

I don't think I have the bar in correct position for low bar squats. I can get it up on my right delt but there's nothing there on my left so it still hurts my left shoulder. It's just fucking lame.

Monday October 20 2008

Squat: none, lame
Bench press: 2/5/5x155lbs: 2 was a fluke, I didn't keep tight, will up weight
Deadlift: 1x5x205lbs, 1x225lbs: pulled 2 bills for the hell of it, was pretty easy

[somebody]

You've got that 1.5bw deadlift, I'm guessing. And just a month ago you thought you'd never figure it out.