Fasting: Your Experience?

[atypical1]

I disagree that anecdotal evidence doesn't cut it. The past-time of weightlifting is built on anecdotal evidence... we do squats and deadlifts because generations of lifters have told us that's what worked for them and those around them. I use a foam roller, not because I've read studies that prove without a doubt it's good for me, but because people I trust have recommended it based on their experience. I think if we were going to abandon all practices that weren't grounded in hard science, we'd have to question a large amount of what we do.

I absolutely disagree with your statement about weightlifting being built on anecdotal evidence. It's not built on that at all. Exercises like squats have a track record of proven results. Even I've measured myself to make sure that a given program is working for me. Generations of people haven't just told us that they worked they have the proof that it does.

There's also science behind foam rolling and the technique and the recommendation of the technique is not simply based on anecdotal evidence. I can't imagine doing something to my body without some amount of scientific proof that it worked or at least wasn't harmful.

You are right, we absolutely should question a large amount of what we do.

Fasting. Is it healthy or unhealthy? We could absolutely measure if it helps cleanse our body and we could absolutely do studies on whether or not our workouts become stronger or weaker because of it. But I don't think that's the point about fasting (as least as Mehdi is undertaking it).

james

[mjh]

I absolutely disagree with your statement about weightlifting being built on anecdotal evidence. It's not built on that at all. Exercises like squats have a track record of proven results. Even I've measured myself to make sure that a given program is working for me. Generations of people haven't just told us that they worked they have the proof that it does.

You make fair points, and I think we're actually mean something different by "anecdodal evidence".When I say 'anecdotal', I don't mean not supported by proof. I just mean that the result matters (fasting-feeling better, squatting-getting stronger) and not as much the scientific details (fasting-Xmgs of toxins excreted, squatting-x% increase in specific kind of muscle fibre).

My point was in response to TakeFive who asserted that people saying fasting had positive benefits for them is entirely irrelevant unless they can quantify precisely and scientifically in which ways it was beneficial.

So when I talk about anecdotal evidence I mean stuff like "athlete X worked on their squat and got faster/stronger etc". Proven results, yes, but not precise, scientific, biological and neurological accounting for them.

But this is off topic now... apologies.

[TakeFive]

You're also constructing strawman arguments: intermittent or occasional fasting does not equal three months of meditation with no lifting.

You're missing the point. The earlier poster took issue with my characterization of fasting for detox as being the antithesis of stronglifts. One is based on a documented procedure with reproducible results, the other on belief without any form of meaningful measurement. I was using an analogy to demonstrate the difference.

No one here is advocating anything like what you described.

Yes, to a degree they are. It's merely in the implicit form of discussing "detox", "cleanse", "shrink you stomach" or "give your liver a break" through fasting. Throughout the public discourse one hears of these "benefits" without much counter argument. I see TV infomercials (in several languages) for colon cleansing, with one guy claiming there's 25 lbs of deposits stuck to the walls of your colon that his formula will clear out. Every day this psuedoscience gets more deeply seeded in the public's mind.

...this is simply a discussion about peoples experiences of fasting.

Yes, and the topic of detox was raised (in the affirmative) a few times, so I don't think it's too far off topic to offer some push back on this point.

The past-time of weightlifting is built on anecdotal evidence.

Well, I think that would come as a suprise to Ripptoe. Read where he dissusses (in colorful language) the effect of GOMAD with lifting and controlling for variables. Weightlifting is built on experimental evidence, a very different animal then anecdotal evidence.

I think if we were going to abandon all practices that weren't grounded in hard science, we'd have to question a large amount of what we do.

You say this as though that's a bad thing. At one time bleeding (or bloodletting) a person was thought to cure many illnesses by removing toxins. Thankfully, someone questioned the evidence, inspite of being practiced for several centuries.

Look MJH, I know you're a smart, educated guy, so I'm pressing on you a little on this. But I don't want to hijack the thread, so I'll cool it if we're getting too far off topic.

[jnjh]

This all makes for interesting reading and it's always good to get a bit of healthy debate going!

Personally, I enjoy a good bout of eating super healthily every so often to clear myself out. That may or may not take the form of fasting. I'm not telling anyone else to do it. For me, the evidence lies in feeling better, that's all.

Look, I know I'm being a bit of a turd here

Sorry my personal view roused you to this level, but you clearly have strong feelings about this.

[Mehdi]

Didn't I wrote I got the idea from fasting from Justa's book who did it for detox purposes but that I wasn't doing it for detox purposes?

Benefits of fasting (from Brad Pilon's book, filled with science)

* Decreased Insulin Levels & Increased Insulin Sensitivity
* Increased Lipolysis and Fat Burning
* Increased Glucagon Levels
* Increased Epinephrine and Norepinephrine levels
* Increased Growth Hormone Levels
* Increased Weight Loss and Increased Fat Loss

Also you're saving money doing this, 2 fastes a week is 1 week groceries less a month. And this is believed to be a more "natural" way of eating. But I'm after the psychological benefits.

Anyway, please back on topic. Fasting: your experience.

Fasted from Sunday 8pm to Monday 8pm
* water + apple cider, close to 10liter on those 24h I think
* faste was easier than last time in the morning, by the time 8pm came I was very very hungry, don't know why it was harder in pm than am this time.
* broke faste with 200g quinoa, can of tuna, can of pineapple, orange, kiwi
* 2 hours later plain yogurt, berries. Then in bed.
* This morning eggs + brocolli + peppers + sjallot + tomato + ground round + orange + green tea
* Then to the gym broke PR on squat, felt great

Martin Berkhan & Brad Pilon say the faste does not affect strength and so far I agree. It seems training is going better. I wonder if the faste wouldn't speed up recovery since there's no digestion going on.

Will start 2nd faste tonight at 8pm. Need to track body-weight daily, so far doesn't seem to be losing any weight doing this. Need to track mirror too, maybe take pics/measure fat.

[jester87]

got a friend who i told him to start fasting. he lost 20pounds in 3months. he used to weigh 92kg now he weighs 83kg! and my friend is probably the least disciplined guy ever, he didnt eat enough protein (far from it) and he ate candy all the time. and i kept telling him to not do that (and to eat more proteins) but he just "yes i know" but never listen to me (he just doesnt want to work for it, no discipline at all). still he lost weight, but i don't know how much is muscle and how much is fat. i told him to check up on his fat percentage and he never did that either. what a tard! but finally he did check up on fat percentage, and he is 25% bodyfat weighing at 84kg, so eh, i think he lost alot of muscle. but this is obviously completely his own fault and not the fasting diets fault.

for me I lost about 3% bodyfat. works good. but i only fasted 24hours+ maybe twice a month. otherwise i did the intermitten fasting where had a timespan of maximum 8hours of eating each day. the important thing is to fast at least 16hours. according to what i read thats when the benefits of fasting starts to come. i started out with warrior diet style, but changed to leangains style after about a month. i had alot of junkfood (like burgers and pizza 4-5 times a week), but i made sure to got 200g proteins each day, so i believe it worked better for me than my friend. i was at 14% bodyfat at 78kg.

what i believe, is that what really makes you lose weight is the calorie deficit. if you're not intending on losing weight, you can probably get better workouts by fasting. i sure did! i actually managed to pull a 5x5 85kg on bench at one time without having eaten all day. that was quite crazy... especially regarding how i have trouble doing 5x5 75kg on bench nowadays.... also i did 5x5 110kg squat yesterday with ease, and i didn't eat before that session... so i would say it helps your lifts

[Beppe]

Will start 2nd faste tonight at 8pm. Need to track body-weight daily, so far doesn't seem to be losing any weight doing this. Need to track mirror too, maybe take pics/measure fat.

So you are doing another fast after just a day of eating, am I right? Is there freedom to do them in the approach you are using or are you planning the fasts in that way for "timing" around workouts?

[Mehdi]

@jester87
It's the caloric defecit that would make you lose weight yes. 2x fastes/week is 6-7000kcal/week in my case, so about 1000kcal/week deficit.

@Beppe
Yes another fast just after 24h of eating. I'm "timing" them between the tu/th workout and away from the weekend. Would make more sense though I think to spread the fastes more (3 days in between). Anyway nothing about this in "eat stop eat", so I'm just going to experiment with this.

[Rokku]

Pilon's approach is to do what's right for you; his aim is to break the obsessiveness around nutrition. Personally, I try and space my fasts out evenly during the week, but whatever feels right - sometimes I just decide to start fasting

[andvanwyk]

You might find this article of interest if you are planning on doing weekly 1 day fasts.

http://drbenkim.com/fasting-fast-one-day-week.htm

Personally, I fasted for 17 days in January under the guide of a naturopathic doctor with nothing but a few glasses of freshly squeezed lemon juice, raw honey and water per day. It was a very worthwhile experience and I gained a lot from it spiritually, mentally and physically. It's not something I would ever recommend to do without guidance as it can be quite difficult at times and you need some type of support.

With regards to strength, it took me about a month to get back to my strength levels prior to the fast, with gains coming pretty quick after I had reached that level again.

[Dada]

As far as being able to lift more after fasting (for those who experienced it) does anyone know why that happens? Is it because the body isn't using energy to digest anything or something along those lines? Or is it simply because you don't feel bloated?

[SimonTemplar96]

I've fasted once or twice in the past for religious reasons (I'm a Christian) and for me it was very difficult. For me food is a big part of enjoying life so its mentally tough to cut it out.
I didn't really notice much in the way of physical effects. I didn't feel much different.

In addition to really enjoying food, I tend to be a boredom eater, so the hardest part for me was when I didn't have anything to keep me occupied/busy.

I have some family members who get into the whole detox type of thing, but I tend not to put much stock in that. For me fasting is more about self control and priorities. I haven't thought about it in a while so this thread has reminded me that I should probably do more fasting.

[Faraz]

Didn't I wrote I got the idea from fasting from Justa's book who did it for detox purposes but that I wasn't doing it for detox purposes?

Benefits of fasting (from Brad Pilon's book, filled with science)

* Decreased Insulin Levels & Increased Insulin Sensitivity
* Increased Lipolysis and Fat Burning
* Increased Glucagon Levels
* Increased Epinephrine and Norepinephrine levels
* Increased Growth Hormone Levels
* Increased Weight Loss and Increased Fat Loss

Hey Mehid,
Does he have any references to the studies that come up with these conlusions? It would be interesting to look at.

[Mehdi]

I've fasted once or twice in the past for religious reasons (I'm a Christian) and for me it was very difficult. For me food is a big part of enjoying life so its mentally tough to cut it out.
I didn't really notice much in the way of physical effects. I didn't feel much different.

In addition to really enjoying food, I tend to be a boredom eater, so the hardest part for me was when I didn't have anything to keep me occupied/busy.

I have some family members who get into the whole detox type of thing, but I tend not to put much stock in that. For me fasting is more about self control and priorities. I haven't thought about it in a while so this thread has reminded me that I should probably do more fasting.

That's the point of fasting. You eat to live, you don't live to eat. Food is not meant to be something to enjoy. It's fuel. And I do enjoy having drinks & dinners and what else, but you should be in control of your eating, not the other way around.

Didn't I wrote I got the idea from fasting from Justa's book who did it for detox purposes but that I wasn't doing it for detox purposes?

Benefits of fasting (from Brad Pilon's book, filled with science)

* Decreased Insulin Levels & Increased Insulin Sensitivity
* Increased Lipolysis and Fat Burning
* Increased Glucagon Levels
* Increased Epinephrine and Norepinephrine levels
* Increased Growth Hormone Levels
* Increased Weight Loss and Increased Fat Loss

Hey Mehid,
Does he have any references to the studies that come up with these conlusions? It would be interesting to look at.

Yes, link to his book: http://stronglifts.com/eat-stop-eat/

But I think you should do it rather than making decisions on studies.

[jester87]

As far as being able to lift more after fasting (for those who experienced it) does anyone know why that happens? Is it because the body isn't using energy to digest anything or something along those lines? Or is it simply because you don't feel bloated?

From what i read it was something about your body getting into this "hunter/warrior" status. If you ate already, the body gets into a "relax" status, because it's satisified, now it doesn't wanna work. it just wanna rest. so thats why you can feel tired and sleepy after a big meal (i always do). also, digestion takes a great deal of energy, so you better not eat big right before working out (a small carb meal will do good though).
but when you havent eaten for a looong time, the body needs it bad, and is doing everything to get it. so when you lift heavy stuff the body totally focuses on that because, for what the body knows, that might be you hunting for food or fighting the food or whatever like that...
it's kinda like when you are shit scared and run for your life, you don't really get tired, cause you wanna live instead and that's the focus just then...
i think you get my drift