Welcome Guest

  • Welcome to the StrongLifts.com Forum, a place for intelligent discussion about losing fat, building muscle, getting stronger, eating healthier and much more.

    You're currently viewing as a guest, which gives you limited read-only access. By joining the free StrongLifts.com community, you'll be able to post messages & videos, keep an online training log, see new messages posted since your last visit and remove this header message. Registration is fast, simple and 100% free!

    Click here to join the StrongLifts.com Community today.

    I really debated about starting a log. This journey gets very personal at times. It's hard to announce to the world things you didn't even want to admit to yourself. But that's why I did it. It needed to be right in front of me so I could deal with it head on. And I needed support to get through it. Who would have thought I'd find that here of all places. :lol: But I did. These guys have been a great help and encouragement through some tough times for me and they probably don't even realize it. - Pagangoddess


History Essay: From Sandow to Schwarzenegger

Whatever comes to your mind

Re: History Essay: From Sandow to Schwarzenegger

Postby NotNowChief » Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:35 pm


Click here to register for free and get rid of this ad.
Just on the diet, MJH would be the man to inform you of Sandows if any note survived.

I don't know about earlier eras but by the time you get to the 1940's, a gallon of milk a day and squat routines were already established.
Injured :(
My Training Log
User avatar
NotNowChief
StrongLifts Member
 
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:36 am
Location: australia

Re: History Essay: From Sandow to Schwarzenegger

Postby mjh » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:39 pm

jpez wrote:Are there any sources on what the old strongmen use to eat/what there diet was like?


I didn't pay a lot of attention to diet and nutrition when reading Sandow's books, as I was focused on training. But what I did see was often that weird kind of Victorian health quackery, like "be sure to masticate rhythmically for at least 142 seconds before swallowing" (satirical paraphrase, not an actual quote). So much of the health advice was in that vein, having a hearty constitution and developing a good moral kind of mental and physical vigour. Moderation was a common theme, which certainly doesn't fit with the Schwarzenegger era of muscle building.

I do know that he was quite contradictory in discussions about his own diet (Chapman writes a little about it). Some texts had him claiming not to drink alcohol and to eat moderately, in others he claimed to eat whatever he wanted because he was exercising. If I had to guess I'd say he just ate heartily from a menu of European foods: meat, dairy (milk and cheeses), veges, and probably heavy beer like stouts or porters (I vaguely recall an anecdote where he drinks some sailors under the table).

Also, this was the heyday of all sorts of snake oil, and Sandow being the entrepreneur that he was got in on the act. As well as various exercise gadgets such as his famous spring loaded dumbbells, he invested in a cocoa factory and started hawking "Sandow's Health and Strength Cocoa".

ImageImage

This enterprise only lasted a few years because other, bigger, cocoa manufacturers such as Cadbury's aggressively competed with Sandow, and he couldn't match their prices. The factory was eventually bought by Nestle.

Sandow also endorsed other people's products, such as this malt extract.

Image

I couldn't find much info about "Sandow's Health and Strength Cocoa", but I doubt it was much more than just plain old drinking cocoa. So Sandow was an innovator not just in selling specific muscle/strength building products, but also in lying about their efficacy!
29yo; 189cm; 95kg| SQ: 100kg, 5x5 | DL: 135kg, 1x5 | OHP: 37.5kg, 5x5

"If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms." Henry Miller
User avatar
mjh
Moderator
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:13 am
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

Re: History Essay: From Sandow to Schwarzenegger

Postby mjh » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:45 pm

By the way, the best online resource for all this stuff is Sandowplus.co.uk.

29yo; 189cm; 95kg| SQ: 100kg, 5x5 | DL: 135kg, 1x5 | OHP: 37.5kg, 5x5

"If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms." Henry Miller
User avatar
mjh
Moderator
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:13 am
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

Re: History Essay: From Sandow to Schwarzenegger

Postby kali » Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:37 am

this was a really great paper. and a part of me prefers the old time european ideal of total body synergistic strength and emphasis on health, kind of like what we do here at SL. the isolation driven beach muscle style of modern bodybuilding somehow got out of hand. also arnold was actually a powerlifter like you mentioned, so that made him somewhat ideal to look at in his movies, also as he claims to have taken only 5% of the steroids used today. in other words, nobody really wants to see ronnie coleman in an action movie, i dont think, arnold at least still remained somewhat proportional, at least compared to todays freakish looking bodybuilders.
now, i cannot wait for your "next article" on the history of the ideal feminine appeal, from the victorian and renaissance voluptious asthetic as evidenced by the great marilyn monroe, to today's runway models, which sadly so many girls try to emulate through anorexia.
like there is a trend or something, the more the men got bigger from sandow to arnold s., the more the woman got skinnier, from marilyn monroe to whoever. i wonder if there is a connection here...
age 38, ht 5'10', wt 176lbs,
SQ 195lbs, BP 170lbs, OHP 110lbs, BBR 170lbs, DL 235lbs
User avatar
kali
StrongLifts Member
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:15 am

Re: History Essay: From Sandow to Schwarzenegger

Postby mjh » Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:04 am

Thanks Kali.

One reason I wanted to do this research is that while there has been a lot of research done on the female body, largely the work of feminist historians, much less has been done about the male body, and even less that is specifically about the muscular male body.

There is a lot of historical writing about feminine ideals. One topic you may find interesting is links between anorexia nervosa now and religious food related practices in the Middle Ages. Now is aesthetic, but then it was ascetic. Holy Feast, Holy Fast is one such book, and Holy Anorexia is another. The latter makes the point that disease itself is culturally constituted.
29yo; 189cm; 95kg| SQ: 100kg, 5x5 | DL: 135kg, 1x5 | OHP: 37.5kg, 5x5

"If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms." Henry Miller
User avatar
mjh
Moderator
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:13 am
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

Re: History Essay: From Sandow to Schwarzenegger

Postby Wellhairedbeast » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:10 am

Thanks for uploading that is was an enjoyable read, its is also interesting in how Sandow approached his own self-marketing and was essentially turning himself into a brand - he looked to the classical ideals but then also used costumes as well it seems, he seems to be more proactive in creating "Sandow the strongman" where as Arnold is provided with different jobs (although you could argue he is somewhat typecast). There are distinct styles and differences in his performances eg Conan is a barbarians and he is a robot in terminator but he is playing a similar role essentially as a strong unstoppable relentless force but these are roles provided to him. This may be a cultural reflection and also largely in part due to the role and development of the silver screen but it is interesting neverthelesss, while Arnold went on to specifically compete aesthetically, it could be argued Sandow was more active in developing an aesthetic brand, whereas Arnold focused on the aesthetics themselves.
"It is sometimes better to miss an opportunity rather than to invite disaster" - Stilgar, Frank Herbert's Dune

Log
Personal Records
Bodyweight: 90.6kg
Squat: 130kg // OHP: 57.5kg // DL: 145kg
BP: 80kg // Rows: 80kg // PC: 62.5kg
User avatar
Wellhairedbeast
Moderator
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:28 pm
Location: England, Kent

Re: History Essay: From Sandow to Schwarzenegger

Postby mjh » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:29 pm

Thanks for the kind comments WHB. I agree with you about the way Sandow promoted himself (with the help of several mentors and managers). The thing about the Grecian ideal, I learned, was as much about him asserting his exemplary status as it was him being recognized as such. He could have had a slightly different physique, and still it would have been the "ideal", and the "perfect".

I also agree that in many ways, Sandow created the basic rules of the game (the aesthetic brand, thanks WHB, I'll steal that if you don't mind :wink:) in which Schwarzenegger would compete later on.
29yo; 189cm; 95kg| SQ: 100kg, 5x5 | DL: 135kg, 1x5 | OHP: 37.5kg, 5x5

"If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms." Henry Miller
User avatar
mjh
Moderator
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:13 am
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

Re: History Essay: From Sandow to Schwarzenegger

Postby Wellhairedbeast » Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:22 pm

No worries :)
"It is sometimes better to miss an opportunity rather than to invite disaster" - Stilgar, Frank Herbert's Dune

Log
Personal Records
Bodyweight: 90.6kg
Squat: 130kg // OHP: 57.5kg // DL: 145kg
BP: 80kg // Rows: 80kg // PC: 62.5kg
User avatar
Wellhairedbeast
Moderator
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:28 pm
Location: England, Kent

Re: History Essay: From Sandow to Schwarzenegger

Postby MikeD » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:36 am

I'm surprised Sandow didn't have more ridiculous products given the time period he was in.

Any idea why this switch began to occur? Drugs? Equipment?
MikeD's 5/3/1 Training Log
Age:18 Height:5"8 Weight: 162
Lifts acheived (lbs):
Squat: 320 x 3
Deadlift: 415 x 1
Bench: 223 x 3
Overhead: 135 x 5
Power Clean: 210 x 1
Power Snatch 145 x 1
MikeD
StrongLifts Member
 
Posts: 1654
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: NY

Re: History Essay: From Sandow to Schwarzenegger

Postby LightsOut » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:08 am

kali wrote:and a part of me prefers the old time european ideal of total body synergistic strength and emphasis on health, kind of like what we do here at SL.


Well, me too.

I beleive there is a trend this way that's been growing in the last years, and this site and the popularity of the SL program (and many more similar programs) are a sign of that.

I beleive we're nearing the top end of muscular growth in humans, I mean, look at Ronnie Coleman or Jay Cutler and look at the poundages they're putting on the shows (at 2% or less bodyfat!) unless we begin to develop some sort of genetical engineering, I don't think the human body is capable of getting much more muscle than those folks are displaying right now.

This, in turn, has provoked a reaction against the aesthetic values of male human muscularity portrayed by BB competitions and related magazines and media. Thus, the trend favoring more natural looking, balanced, functional and healhty physiques that is growing.

Regarding the paper, I found it entertaining, interesting and very informative. It was a good job and I hope you got a good grade on it.
LightsOut
StrongLifts Member
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:30 pm

Re: History Essay: From Sandow to Schwarzenegger

Postby mjh » Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:08 am

LightsOut wrote:Regarding the paper, I found it entertaining, interesting and very informative. It was a good job and I hope you got a good grade on it.


Thanks very much LightsOut. I was happy with it (well, as happy as any writer can ever be with their own work), and I did get a good great with some very nice comments from my prof. The class is currently collating all our research papers, and a few review essays (I wrote mine on 'Opium and Empire') into a journal. It won't see much circulation outside of the history dept. of my uni, but nonetheless it's going in the 'publications' section of my CV!
29yo; 189cm; 95kg| SQ: 100kg, 5x5 | DL: 135kg, 1x5 | OHP: 37.5kg, 5x5

"If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms." Henry Miller
User avatar
mjh
Moderator
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:13 am
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

Re: History Essay: From Sandow to Schwarzenegger

Postby jfh26 » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:59 am

LightsOut wrote:
kali wrote:
I beleive we're nearing the top end of muscular growth in humans, I mean, look at Ronnie Coleman or Jay Cutler and look at the poundages they're putting on the shows (at 2% or less bodyfat!) unless we begin to develop some sort of genetical engineering, I don't think the human body is capable of getting much more muscle than those folks are displaying right now.



I would argue that they have already passed the top end of muscular growth in humans, as I sincerely doubt they got that way naturally.
My Log

Current Best (Goal by March break 2010)
Bodyweight: 185lbs(-------)
Squat: 240lbs(250lbs) 3x5
Bench: 185lbs(210lbs) 3x5
Dead: 300lbs(315lbs) 1x5
OHP: 110lbs(125lbs) 3x5
BBR: 140lbs(155lbs) 5x5
User avatar
jfh26
StrongLifts Member
 
Posts: 735
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:31 am

Re: History Essay: From Sandow to Schwarzenegger

Postby LightsOut » Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:35 am

jfh26 wrote:I would argue that they have already passed the top end of muscular growth in humans, as I sincerely doubt they got that way naturally.


What i meant is, even with chemical assistance, we may see slighlty bigger bodybuilders in the next years, but not that much. I don't think it is possible for a human being to grow much more muscle even with chemical assistance, so, unless we discover a way to do it (genetical engineering, synthetic muscle impants, or whatever taken from a sci-fi program) we're almost at the top end.

The point is, I'm not surprised that there is a growing trend headed in the other direction: natural, balanced and functional looks.
LightsOut
StrongLifts Member
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:30 pm

Re: History Essay: From Sandow to Schwarzenegger

Postby StevieB » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:40 am

The point is, I'm not surprised that there is a growing trend headed in the other direction: natural, balanced and functional looks.


I don't think the trend is going the other way to be honest.
In reality, very few people want to look like bodybuilders and noone outside of BB portrays them as the human ideal. (hence they're not all over commercials).
The trend nowadays (and has been like this for a while) tends towards Abs and Biceps... with skinny little chicken legs to go with it.
...Abercrombie and Fitch physiques
Current Stats:
26yo Male 97kg. Squat 120kg, Deadlift 115Kg, Bench 115kg, OHP 72.5kg, PC 85kg
Goals 2010:
Squat 140kg, Deadlift 140Kg, Bench 125kg, OHP 80kg , PC 100kg
StevieB
StrongLifts Member
 
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:59 am

Previous

Return to Off-topic

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

  • Get My Free eBook
  • Learn how to build muscle and lose fat with strength training in only 3 workouts per week. Click here for more info.
  •