How important is just being strong.

[Raguel01]

I know this is a strength training forum but i was wondering what importance people put on just focusing on strength.

I have been reading more about Crossfit and their idea's which im starting to think is pretty good even if their programme might lack focus. I mean whats the use of being really strong if you aint fast or able to run a fair distance. I was wondering if there is a limit of strength that you would be happy at say 1.5bw squat and then working on endurance at that weight like.

I would like to build stamina and strength but still be fairly fast more like how a fighter trains. I like how fighters are really strong for their bodyweight but not at the expense of speed or stamina. Now I understand if I try be ok at everything I will never be great at one thing however due to either the limitations in genetics or dedication I am never going to be a world class powerlifter or even be at amature level.

Im also thinking that the human body is very adaptable and part of this adaptability is to be able to many different things. We did not evolve to lift super heavy weights on our backs, Like wise it aint really healthy to run really long distances due to the strain it puts on the body.

Is it not better to then train in a way that reflects our evolution to be a really good all rounder.

This is not getting at people who want to focus on strength I just want to see what peoples opinions are on the subject.

Raguel

[Mehdi]

Strength training doesn't make you slow. You have to lift fast to get stronger. So you will get faster to lift weights. That's why we even use bands & chains to build even more speed and stuff like box squats & power cleans to learn to explode.

The problem with trying to be a good all rounder, is that it usually leads to being good at nothing. Some guys really work hard on their training, but neglect their work/social life/etc. Why: because it's hard to get really good at several things at the same time. It needs focus but also sacrifice.

Anyway, why I do it:
* It's fun
* Better posture.
* Increased endurance. I have no problems going for 30mins runs. Runs not jogging, at a good pace.
* Increased strength. Think of moving furniture, think of working in your yard, think of backpack travelling, think of carrying someone, ... All this stuff gets easier.
* Increased balance & kinesthetic sense. That alone makes transitioning to any other sport or physical activity (dancing for example) a lot easier.
* Stronger joints. Will prevent a lot of issues.
* Mental training. Confidence, persistence, raising pain treshold, ...
* etc

I think that strength training is the most versatile & beneficial sport. Even if I'm biased, I think it's true. I can't see any sport where you'd transition so easy and that would give you so many benefits. There's a reason strength training is added to other sports nowadays. We're not adding soccer to improve our Squats. But they're adding Squats to improve their soccer game.

I'm not anti-endurance or something,. But I don't see much benefit in increasing it more than what I currently have, unless I plan to do something with that endurance. Imo it just isn't that beneficial compared to strength. Maybe I'm missing something, so please provide examples if you got something.

[atypical1]

I know this is a strength training forum but i was wondering what importance people put on just focusing on strength.
I would like to build stamina and strength but still be fairly fast more like how a fighter trains. I like how fighters are really strong for their bodyweight but not at the expense of speed or stamina. Now I understand if I try be ok at everything I will never be great at one thing however due to either the limitations in genetics or dedication I am never going to be a world class powerlifter or even be at amature level.

There's a real misconception out there regarding strength which is that it makes you slow and sluggish. This is simply not the case at all. Many of the movements that we do (deadlifts, squats) are fairly explosive in their nature. Lift over your bodyweight on deads and it takes a LOT of initial effort to get it off the ground. Pushing up over your bodyweight on squats takes a lot of power and initial effort once you reach parallel and below. That power can translate to speed.

Take a look at a sprinter. Do you think that a sprinter is going to do cross fit in order to improve their sprinting technique? No. What they are going to do are the movements that make their legs stronger because that power and strength will translate directly to speed. Think a pro sprinter is going to squat 1.5 times their bodyweight? I'd venture to say that they are.

So many misconceptions...so little time

james

[wrenchhands]

I'd say strength is only part of the equation, with speed, endurance and flexibility being other components of a healthy body.

This program touches on the other things, but it's mostly strength. I played a game of hockey the other day, and let me tell you, endurance still matters, and I need to do more cardio.

Anyways, I've always thought being a "jack of all trades, master of none" was a good thing. I wanna be functionally strong, I wanna learn to breakdance, I wanna keep playing hockey, and a whole bunch of other stuff not-related to physicality.

I'm not gonna the best at anything, but I can hold my own.

[Raguel01]

Yeah this is interesting. I know speed is important to olympic lifts. I have seen how in Crossfit this is the aspect they focus on as well, doing everything with high intensity. Do you feel this is the important thing that no mater what you do it should be done as fast as possible. I know the SL E-book says you need to perform everything fast.

I am interested in taking up kick boxing soon and have done some martial arts and Krav Maga in the past. Just find it strange that all of these activities have always pushed developing the body through bodyweight exercises. It was never advised to lift additional weight is was all about getting strong but with in what your body could develop.

Also I have looked at several army training programmes and they all seem to focus on running, body weight exercises and seem to focus on stamina and endurance.

Just wondering as I have been doing the programme not sticking to it 100 percent due to lack of equipment. However I have improved in all of my lifts but I have found my conditioning is slipping. I can easily workout for 2 hours and have also thrown the odd tabata in however im wanting to focus on more all round fitness.

Just wanting to get opinions like,

Wrenchhands I would always like to learn how to break dance those guys are scary strong for there size and its all body weight stuff they do.

Raguel.

[Mehdi]

You must always lift fast. All sports are done fast. Including weight lifting. Slow lifting has only purposes for bodybuilding (time under tension thing), not for strength. Ross Enamait is a boxer and he does body-weight exercises + weights. You have to look for information from the right people. What the majority does, doesn't mean it's the right thing.

If endurance is still low, it's because you're not strong enough yet. That's all. The higher your 1RM, the higher your 10/20rm, and thus the easier body-weight stuff.

Now if you're comparing yourself to rugby players who are serious about it, and do endurance work all the time: off course you'll struggle against them. I have a friend who goes for long runs of 1 hour all the time, I can handle 30mins at a good pace, but I'd die if I follow him. You get good at what you do best.

If you want to compete against them, then you'll have to do endurance work. I - again - don't see the benefit in having more endurance if you're not going to use it in some way (please enlighten me if I overlook something). Endurance with strength training is plenty enough, most people I know can't run for more than 10mins.

[AD69]

Mehdi, I totally agree with your article on how strength training improves cardiovascular performance.

I have not done any "cardio" work for months (years?), but when I recently played football (soccer), I was able to run more than a lot of guys who do more cardio work.

Probably as football can be more anaerobic (stop-start), but I had more stamina, power and strength than most.

Its interesting about the speed/power/strength debate with regards to sprinters or other athletes. I used to compete in athletics. My main event was the hammer throw, but was required to do everything in between.

I trained with the sprint team, as a thrower, I needed explosive power over a short distance (shot putters are usually very fast over 30m).

I supplemented weight training as well, but this was so I could handle the force of the hammer at speed - I needed strength/power to make the hammer go faster, as it would travel further. I would regularly throw further than guys with more brute strength as I had the technique to transfer more power to the hammer.

It is the same for sprinters - guys like Bolt, etc will do strength training, to build power to translate into speed.

[wrenchhands]

Yeah, the breakdancers are beast in terms of muslces.

But I want to breakdance for the sake of it.

[Raguel01]

Yeah im gonna stick with the programme till I get to a good level of strength. Read an article on T-Nation which gave some guidlines on strength limits.
A Decent level is.
1.5x squat
1x bench
2x deadlift
I suppose these arnt too far off once I get my self a decent squat rack. Im up to 80kg Squat which is about Bodyweight but my bench/squat rack aint rated for any more weight and I dont really wanna push it lol. Im also up to 100kg Dead however i dont have any more weight so have not progressed on this either.

Since this has happend I have started doing 4 sets of 8 and now moved on to 4x10 for the same weight. This has made me think of moving in thin direction and foucing on the higher volume for stamina. Im also going to add more weighted assistance stuff like push ups and pull ups. Im going to start running more as I feel I want to start focusing on more of the endurance side of things. Tempted to do the 100Push-up programme.

Also been looking on the Ross Enemait site some really good stuff. Really pushes the interval training stuff and also endurance. I guess thats needed for a fight.

[wrenchhands]

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... _standards

[ryanflyer05]

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/are_you_strong_find_out_right_now_with_these_strength_standards

That's interesting how the standards for squat and deadlift are the same in most categories.

On a note more related to the thread, I remember watching Olympic coverage last summer and they showed a little bit of how Usain Bolt trains. Anyways, he was doing big compound lifts like you'd expect. I think sprinters and gymnasts have the best, most functional physiques. And you know that it translates well to most other sports. That's what I'm aiming for.

[ElPresidente]

Also I have looked at several army training programmes and they all seem to focus on running, body weight exercises and seem to focus on stamina and endurance.

Which makes perfect sense for regular foot soldiers. For thousands of years the main job of soldiers has been walking quickly while carrying a lot of gear, with occasional episodes of brief sprints with some lighter gear, followed by a few hours of hard physical work.

Some of that has changed, but not that much.

[jwhal]

Just for fun, check out movnat.com

Jon

[wrenchhands]

Well, i do lift barefoot.

[Raguel01]

I liked that website guess it was kinda going for the angle im leaning towards. More natural movments doing the things we were built for.

Im going to start climbing soon been looking into it for a while. I feel im more interested in relevent strength. I want to be strong but within the limits of myself, I guess I only need to be strong enough to lift myself up on to something or run a fair distance at speed. So Push ups, Pull ups, running and lifting moderate weights but with many reps at high speed.

I guess everyone has there own individual goals. I recon I have never been a big guy. Ok strength for my size but nothing special. Guess like in my first post im looking at more like a fighters abilities as opposed to a powerlifters.

However I do see the attraction of being super strong and if you guys have the ability to develop truly impresive lifts then go for it, everyone is different, its what makes life interesting.

Raguel.