I'm starting to not trust my physical therapist

[Hash]

I posted a while ago about my visit to a physical/athletics therapist concerning a shoulder injury that i sustained during an OHP set (I had screwed up my form).

Yesterday was the first day I was supposed to start moving weights higher than 10lbs again, and with her knowing that what I wanna do at the gym are the big compound lifts, she started with squats.

First, bar placement: She never heard of high/low bar placements. What she wanted was pretty much the high bar placement though.

Second, the elbows: She wanted them below the bar almost @ 90 degrees pointing to the floor. I think different people recommend different things here, so let's assume it's not an issue.

Third, the squat stance: She wanted me to put my feet a bit less than shoulder length apart, pointed straight forward, at a 0 degree angle.
One of the main reasons for this is that squatting with a stance that's as wide as shoulder length or more would lead to a person only being stable on a wider base only, and so we need to switch it up as to not cause muscle imbalance.

This gets me to the fourth point, the knees. As I'm attempting to go down in this kind of stance, I need to make sure that my feet keep pointing forward @ 0 degrees, and not allow my knees to go out (i.e. do not shove them out). This would keep my thigh aligned with my knee aligned with my foot.

I had trouble squatting like that. So did she. (though she still did a bit better than me)
She says this is caused by weak hamstrings and glutes, compared to my quads. Also stabilizers and adductors play a role. But Low-bar squats will fix this hamstring thing... no, you need to squat with that stance with feet pointed at a 0 degree angle.

She then put 2 5-pound plates under my heels to help. meh.

When I tried it later at the gym I usually attend, it was much easier, but I felt that it might be putting too much pressure on the knees this way, even with only a bar on my back. I can't imagine how it would feel with a bit more weight.

So, we went to try lunges. When it comes to stance during the lunge, My back leg should be almost aligned with my front leg. Not comfortable at all, and didn't seem natural either. I'm do lunges the way the squat rx guy does them in one of his videos @ ~6:28.

She gave me a few good static stretches for the glutes, quads, traps, pecs though. I also told her to check out starting strength. Passed her my copy too. I doubt she'll bother though.

What do some of the more experienced people think?

I'm gonna ask rippetoe about this whenever I get the chance to register on the strengthmill forums.

[BlocHead]

posted a while ago about my visit to a physical/athletics therapist

Firstly, so this person is a 'physio' not somebody that works in a gym environment, more related to injury treatment and prevention.

Secondly, if this is the case why are you taking her advice on weightlifting technique, she is in no postition to give out advice on how to perform any exercise (apart from rehab and the like) If you have a copy of starting strength then you should know how to squat properly anyway (Mark Rippetoe will ofc be more sympathetic to your case...yer lol)

You really shouldnt adopt any of the techniques she has given you, all you need to know is in SS. I cant believe you actually paid for her to tell you that, i wouldnt trust her either!

[vhalros]

Well, to present a possible scenario; she may be a competent physical therapist even if she's not a good weight lifter. Her background and training aren't about how to make people strong as an ox, they're about getting people strong enough to function with minimum impairment in daily life. The squat from she is teaching you may be good (or at least, adequate) for recovery from injury and to get a certain level of strength, but not so hot for getting you really strong, and not a good form to have when putting a heavy weight on your shoulders.

So, if this is the case, its not so much about not "trusting" her as about understanding her background and knowledge, and how it relates to your goals. Of course, this may not be the case (especially since you said physical/athletics therapist), maybe she just sucks. I am merely presenting a possible scenario

[eLvarouza]

What does squatting like that have to do with shoulder rehab? Alright, maybe the low bar position will aggravate the shoulder. However, stance width and toe angle have nothing to do with your shoulders. You have Starting Strength: you know how to squat.

[mpetry]

I have seen people squatting like this in the gym: high bar, feet parallel, close together, facing forward, back loose. I seriously doubt that they can break parallel like this with much weight on the bar. It just seems highly unsafe in terms of balance.

[Hash]

What does squatting like that have to do with shoulder rehab? Alright, maybe the low bar position will aggravate the shoulder. However, stance width and toe angle have nothing to do with your shoulders. You have Starting Strength: you know how to squat.

She made a mention of upper back flexibility causing wrong form which might hurt me again. She also wants me to fix any muscle imbalances that I have (And I do a bit, but pretty much everyone has those)/

She sent me a pdf related to what she's doing. It's called "The Functional Movement Screen and Exercise Progressions Manual", and here's what that manual says about its goal:

A focal point of this program is that significant limitations or right and left side imbalances exist in some
individuals at very basic levels of movement. These limitations and imbalances should not be overlooked.
The body should be free of restrictions and free of imbalances prior to training, conditioning, competition
and fitness activities. The significant limitations in left-right imbalances drastically distort motor learning,
movement perception, body awareness and mechanics. They rob the body of efficiency and are very often
hidden by those individuals who learn to compensate and substitute with other movement patterns.

That manual contains a bunch of exercises used as tests, and the deep squat done like described above is one of the first tests.

The pdf is ~3MB, zipped ~1.4MB. I can upload it somewhere if people are interested.

These sessions are also free after taking into account insurance. So it's no big deal.

[luco]

Find a sports physio that has experience dealing with weightlifters. It's not something that's automatically part of a physio's knowledge since it's not taught about in school. As Vhalros stated: She knows exercises to get people that have muscle weaknesses so bad they impair their everyday life to function normally again. NOT to make an atlethe perform at his peak, since she's not a strength coach. Don't just do what she tells you because she's supposed to be the expert.

[wobbles]

Sounds to me like she's teaching you the default way to squat. You know, the wrong way. As with every other person, listen to what she has to say, filter out the obviously incorrect shit, get a second opinion on the vague bits, and apply whatever has a high chance of being beneficial.

Good idea on asking Rippetoe for his advice, although if you follow his posts I'm sure you know how he's going to respond.