Improve my split workout

[Berbatov]

Hello everyone ,

I am new to this forum . I accidently jumped into the site and also then read the e-book for Stronglifts 5x5 program , but I don't want to follow it . So far I have about 6 months experience in the gym , 3 months of which are 3 years ago and since 1st of july I am training on 3-day ( monday - wednesday - friday ) split . 1 month I was on round-workout . Help me improve it , by adding removing , changing exercises or reps . I want to make it more effective . So far I am not happy with the results , I don't see a change in the mirror . But all the time from 23 June to 15-20 september I run 5 days a week 4 , 6 or 9 kilometres with different styles of running ( slow , sprints , Hiit as people call it , I call it change-tempo ) . My goal is gaining weight and getting ripped . Anyway I tihnk I gained like 7 kilos from when I started in the gym .Eating is 5 times a day . I am getting about 140-150 grams of protein everyday from food but how many should be my carbs ? like weight x 5 or more ?

Age - 19
Height - 185
Weight - 72 kg
Bodyfat - not sure, in 2006 it was 8% , in 2008 10% measured by the doctor


Measurements ( taken on 26th August ):
Arm - 30 sm
Chest - 86 without air ; 91 with
Stomach - 79
Leg - 52,5
Calf - 34

My split :

Monday - Chest and biceps
Bench press - 3-4x10
Incline bench press / Incline dumblell press - 3 x10 (sometimes both)
Flyes/Crossover - 3x10
------
Sitting on chair with EZ barbell - 3 x 10 ( cant name the exercise , we call it Scott )
Standing dumbell curls - 3 x10 ( most times only one exercise of these two )

Wednesday - Back and triceps

Chin-ups with tight grip - 4XF
Barbell row / T-Barbell row / Dumbell row - 3x10
Vertical cable machine with wide grip / Horizontal cable machine with tight grip - 3x10
Deadlift - 3-4x10
-----
Bench press with tight grip - 3x10
Dumbell above head/Dips/On cable machines with rope - 3x10

Friday - Legs and Shoulder
Squat - 4x10
Leg-press/Leg reverse curl - 3x10
Leg curl - 3x10
Calf-machine seated / Standing calf raises - 3x10
-----
Shoulder press seated - 3x10
Dumbell raise for shoulders/Helicopter - 3x10
Dumbell raise for back part of shoulder - 3x10 ( most times skip this )

Abs I train at home sometimes - leg raises or different types of crunches . My strength results are the folowing :
Bench press - 5x50
Squat - 10x45
Deadlift - 10x50
Military front press - 8 x 30
With Clean technique .

My goal is body like this in 2-3 years :
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/0 ... 68x803.jpg
or like this :
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bYEE-K0aHQc/S ... hot-01.jpg

See , I want to look good with good amount of muscles so I am not so skinny , I dont care so much about strength or weightgain , I mean nobody asks you how much do you weigh or how much do you lift , everybody sees the way you look , so I care mostly about that .

[knoted]

...then read the e-book for Stronglifts 5x5 program , but I don't want to follow it .

I believe you might learn a few things if you read it again and actually gave it a go for 12 weeks. You are a beginner, so try and learn from people like Mehdi who actually know from experience and research. Try going through Mehdi's Blog archive for a lot of information on all the things you are worried about.

As to your physique, you are very light for your height. I know the guys you linked to are small, so maybe that's what you are going for, but they really don't have that much muscle on them. You seem to think that getting big and getting strong are two seperate and incompatable goals. Usually, they are the same thing, up to a point anyway. From your lifting numbers, you are not yet anywhere near that point.

I'd suggest you cut down on the low and medium intensity running (unless that's a goal of yours in itself), keep the high intensity / sprinting, say twice a week though. Start eating more, you will always look skinny until you put on quite a few more kilos. Don't get upset about your body fat too much while trying to get bigger, it's very hard to do both at the same time. I reckon you'd be around 80 kg at your height to get the physique of those guys in the photos.

I can't help with your program, but I'm glad you have included compound exercises in your program though, like squats, deadlift, and overhead press. Good luck.

[killerdude494949]

I remember the first time I heard about fullbody workouts and no isolation exercises I made every excuse under the sun to make myself believe I would not get bigger. But with experience comes knowledge. Experience tells me they work, and they work way, way better than a bodypart split for people that are not remotely big or strong.

[atypical1]

OK, couple of quick questions for you. (1) what do you not like about the SL program? Is there something specific that you're opposed to? (2) how open are you to change?

Since you're coming to us for advice I'll assume that you're open to change. You have somewhat competing goals of gaining weight and getting ripped. Because you're ridiculously skinny I'm going to assume that you are able to lose body fat easily. So this suggestion will be in two parts. One is diet and one is exercise.

Diet, eat. Lots. Repeat. Eat a lot of whole foods (whole grains, meats, cheeses, veggies). Stay away from processed foods. But eat a lot. If you can handle the milk I'd drink a gallon of milk a day. It seems like a lot but you'll be surprised at how many calories you really need. Don't eat junk food at all.

Exercise. Frankly I'm not that hung up on exercises simply because a beginner like you will see growth regardless of program if you're consistent and committed to it. I'd say to go on the SL program but you already said you didn't want to. In that case I'd reduce the reps on your major exercises (bench, rows, deads, squats) to 5 and up the sets to 5. That will give you almost the same number of overall reps for each of those exercises but will dramatically increase the quality. By increasing the number of reps to 5 you can automatically increase the weight you are using (you can lift much more weight 5 times than you can 10). Heavy weights are what build muscle not light weights. Add weight weekly even if that means a couple of kg's at a time (or less if you need to). This is an important aspect of any program and gets left out a lot. You have to stress your body more and more and the only way to do that is by adding weight.

Good luck,
james

[Zendefone]

I think it would be better to do a few simple, compound exercises and hit them hard, rather than so many types of exercises per bodypart. Do full body workouts. Just my 2 cents.

[Berbatov]

I will answer from down to up :
Zendefone : I think I am begginer and this program with only heavy exercises is not for me .

James :With the food as far as regarded to quality I am ok , I dont eat sugar or anything sweet - wafers , chocolate , cakes from about 2 years . Same goes for fizzy drinks . I dont drink any alcohol or beer since I started training in the gym . I very rarely eat pork . I dont eat things that are fried in a pan . I dont eat crisps or things like this . But I eat a lot of white bread . My food is mainly chicken meat , vegetables , pototaoes , white bread , pasta , rice , white cheese , yellow cheese , eggs , youghurt , milk , fruits , cottage cheese ( not exactly but someting like it ) . I dont want to make gallon of milk a day . As I see people get really a lot of fats through it . Quantity of the food I will try to increase , I think I have about 3000 calories .
As i said i think i am begginer and this program not suitable for me , maybe later . Also I dont have 1.25 disks at the fitness centre . I think I must get stronger to do this kind of program . I am open to change , because I know that I know little about fitness at all . But i will try to make 5x5 on some exercises.

knoted : What I say to you is . Man , the first guy ( Micah Richards ) has better body than 99% procent of the men in my opinion , when you reach him , call me . And Cristiano ronaldo had better body than 90% percent of the men . I saw their stats . 178/80 kilos and 185/75 kilos . Its not that much eh ? See some people give as goals bodybuilders , but I dont , I know I cant and dont want to reach them anyway . I have goals that are not so high . But high enough . Even in the gym i very rarely can see people that have bodies like the pictures i posted , same goes for internet .

[lovestolift]

.... I dont care so much about strength or weightgain , I mean nobody asks you how much do you weigh or how much do you lift , everybody sees the way you look , so I care mostly about that .

This site may not be for you. Although some care about how they look, they all tend to care about how much they lift. You may find Bodybuliding.com to be more conducive to your aesthetic goals. You are welcome here, but I doubt you'll get what you want out of it.

'Round here, we live and die by the barbell. The majority of us stay away from machines and isolation exercises. I would rather be able to pick up something heavy, which makes me more useful, rather than look cut or ripped or whatever. Either way, good luck.

[Berbatov]

Maybe I didn't express myself clearly . I understand that I have to continue increasing weights when lifting , but It doesnt make so much difference for me if I would lift 80 or 100 in the bench ( maybe that will happen in a year , if I continue seriously ) , It matters more the way I look in the mirror . You know I am more happy to be skinny without muscles rather than fat with some muscles , thats my structure.

[jfh26]

Exactly. Which is why lovestolift suggested that this is not the best website for you. At Stronglifts, the people are concerned with getting stronger. Period. Hence the name "Strong"+"Lifts." People here are about making serious life changes - getting fit, healthy, and strong. If it doesn't make a difference to you how strong you are as long as you looked jacked, you're not going to find what you're looking for here. You'd be better off seeking advice on a bodybuilding-style website and not a powerlifting-style website.

[mjh]

I'll second LTl and jfh26's points.

I can't speak for everyone, of course, and I think it's fair to say that many of us here want to look better, but that goal is closely aligned, or even subordinate, to our strength goals. A fundamental aspect of this site, and strength training in general is to focus on big compound lifts, make judicious use of accessory lifts, stay away from machines, and not spend much time on isolation exercises.

There will be few people that have much constructive advice to offer about your routine, other than to ditch it, because they have little experience with or interest in that kind of thing. Your goals are entirely about looking good, and gaining strength doesn't matter to you (and it should, given your stats. I'm sorry but it's true).

Therefore this forum has little to offer you. I'd suggest posting this question at any one of the many forums out there that focus more on the "ripped look". Best of luck achieving your goals.

[mjh]

As i said i think i am begginer and this program not suitable for me , maybe later . Also I dont have 1.25 disks at the fitness centre . I think I must get stronger to do this kind of program . I am open to change , because I know that I know little about fitness at all .

This program makes you stronger, and will do so much better than the one you posted. Read this:

I Want to Build Muscle. Is Bodybuilding Better? Or can I do StrongLifts 5x5?
Bodybuilding is lifting weights for aesthetics reasons, without paying any attention to strength. You will get stronger through bodybuilding, just like you will build muscle through strength training. However, the goal of bodybuilding is building muscle in the first place, not getting stronger.

Some of the most accomplished bodybuilders started training for strength using heavy compound exercises before getting into bodybuilding split routines. Examples include: Arnold Schwarzenneger, Franco Columbo, Reg Park, Ronnie Coleman, Johnny Jackson, and many more. Schwarzenneger was a competitive powerlifters for years, his best lifts: Squat 215 kg, Bench 200 kg and Deadlift 310 kg. That's a sick Bench Press/Deadlift compared to his Squat which explains why Arnold's chest and back where his best body parts, while his legs never were that great. The lesson this teaches you is that if you have a weak body part, you should focus on getting it stronger.

If you want to focus on building muscle solely, build base strength first through strength training. Once you can Squat 1.5x body-weight and more for 1 rep, you can switch to bodybuilding to focus on aesthetics only. Chances are, however, that once you'll get strong, you won't even want to switch to bodybuilding anymore. Check the physique of powerlifter Kirk Karwoski, strongman Mariusz Pudzianowski and Michael Sidorychev or olympic weightlifter Ivan Stoitsov. These guys train for strength, not for aesthetics. Most people are satisfied with this kind of body that looks strong, but also is strong.

[killerdude494949]

Hello everyone ,

I am new to this forum . I accidently jumped into the site and also then read the e-book for Stronglifts 5x5 program , but I don't want to follow it . So far I have about 6 months experience in the gym , 3 months of which are 3 years ago and since 1st of july I am training on 3-day ( monday - wednesday - friday ) split . 1 month I was on round-workout . Help me improve it , by adding removing , changing exercises or reps . I want to make it more effective . So far I am not happy with the results , I don't see a change in the mirror . But all the time from 23 June to 15-20 september I run 5 days a week 4 , 6 or 9 kilometres with different styles of running ( slow , sprints , Hiit as people call it , I call it change-tempo ) . My goal is gaining weight and getting ripped . Anyway I tihnk I gained like 7 kilos from when I started in the gym .Eating is 5 times a day . I am getting about 140-150 grams of protein everyday from food but how many should be my carbs ? like weight x 5 or more ?

Age - 19
Height - 185
Weight - 72 kg
Bodyfat - not sure, in 2006 it was 8% , in 2008 10% measured by the doctor


Measurements ( taken on 26th August ):
Arm - 30 sm
Chest - 86 without air ; 91 with
Stomach - 79
Leg - 52,5
Calf - 34

My split :

Monday - Chest and biceps
Bench press - 3-4x10
Incline bench press / Incline dumblell press - 3 x10 (sometimes both)
Flyes/Crossover - 3x10
------
Sitting on chair with EZ barbell - 3 x 10 ( cant name the exercise , we call it Scott )
Standing dumbell curls - 3 x10 ( most times only one exercise of these two )

Wednesday - Back and triceps

Chin-ups with tight grip - 4XF
Barbell row / T-Barbell row / Dumbell row - 3x10
Vertical cable machine with wide grip / Horizontal cable machine with tight grip - 3x10
Deadlift - 3-4x10
-----
Bench press with tight grip - 3x10
Dumbell above head/Dips/On cable machines with rope - 3x10

Friday - Legs and Shoulder
Squat - 4x10
Leg-press/Leg reverse curl - 3x10
Leg curl - 3x10
Calf-machine seated / Standing calf raises - 3x10
-----
Shoulder press seated - 3x10
Dumbell raise for shoulders/Helicopter - 3x10
Dumbell raise for back part of shoulder - 3x10 ( most times skip this )

Abs I train at home sometimes - leg raises or different types of crunches . My strength results are the folowing :
Bench press - 5x50
Squat - 10x45
Deadlift - 10x50
Military front press - 8 x 30
With Clean technique .

My goal is body like this in 2-3 years :
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/0 ... 68x803.jpg
or like this :
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bYEE-K0aHQc/S ... hot-01.jpg

See , I want to look good with good amount of muscles so I am not so skinny , I dont care so much about strength or weightgain , I mean nobody asks you how much do you weigh or how much do you lift , everybody sees the way you look , so I care mostly about that .

Dude you're so lost, I really reccommend you listen to others that know more than you. Let me clear a few things that you have no clue about.

You don't want to follow the SL program, and you obviously don't know anything about weight training (or else you wouldnt be asking us what to do), but yet, you aren't getting results. This is not a coincidence. People with more experience than you told you what gives results but you think you know better. Sorry but thats not smart.

You want to increase the size of your muscles but you are running 5x a week.

You want to gain weight and get ripped. There's nothing wrong with this, except for the fact that you are already ripped, and you cant remain 8% bodyfat while gaining weight.

What I ALSO found interesting is that those two athletes in the pictures train for strength and conditioning, but you refuse train like that. Plus Cristiano Ronaldo has NO size at all.

The way the Stronglifts program is set up is how the old school bodybuilders developed all their mass without steroids.

[MikeSydney]

Without saying get rid of it here is what i'd do to improve it. Split all your exercises into pushing and pulling, Pick 1 heavy pushing and 1 heavy pulling exercise example, bench press and chin ups, Drop your reps and up your sets. Do this 2 days per week alternating exercises, Squat workout and deadlift every second workout. Add whatever else you think is nessesary at the end of it. Just a few slight modifications.

[sjl]

Maybe some help:

I like the idea MikeSydney just posted. But, I'm going to just stick to SL 5X5 Beginner's as it is virtually the same except for the adding 2.5 kgs per workout. ( And you could buy a set of 1.25kg plates very cheap at a local sport store.)

This is a balanced full-body workout. And I don't have to do the programming myself (an accident waiting to happen-- if you know what I mean (self-discipline and consistency. At least for me.))

I started with nearly the exact body stats as Berbetov, and I have about the same goal-- to look pretty good ,but also, to keep good health. I'm about at squat 1XBW and I look near to the 2nd picture above.
The 1st picture looks like a pro football player or olympic sprinter. I bet he can squat 2XBW.
Losing 5% of my body fat would be easy at any time, now. I just took off 1 or 2%.

Everyone on hear is not out to be Mr. Olympia or The world's strongest man. This beginner's program is excellent to get in good basic shape IMO.

People use their stats here just for motivation to continue with the program. Before you know it, your goals are achieved. 6 - 8 weeks for me. What was my goal? Oh yea! to look better and be healthier. So far so good!

To the OP: I think this SL5X5 deserves serious consideration--or one similar.

[nexusmidas]

As a beginner you would probably benefit more from a full body routine. Splits are usually for more advanced trainees. Although both work for you I think full body would work better.

If you still want to stick with a split. I would also recommend to drop the reps to 4-6 (5)reps per set. And do 1 or 2 core exercises and work them well and maybe 1 assistance exercise . I would focus more on the big bang for your buck exercises. Something like this:

Chest/Bi
Bench Press 4x4-6
Incline Press 4x4-6
Dips 4xRM
Curls or chinups 4x4-6

Back/tri
Wide grip pull ups 5xrm
Close grip chin ups 5xrm
DB or BB rows 4x4-6
Skullcrushers 4x4-6

Legs/shoulders
Squat 5x5
Deadlift 2x5
Military press standing 4x4-6
One arm standing DB press 4x4-6

For most exercises I would say do one warm up sets of 6 reps with a really light weight. Then perform one slightly heavier sets also 4-6 reps. Make sure not to tire yourself before you get to your MONEY sets. Now do 2 heavy sets; your money sets. Then if you still got the energy perform one more set. For the last set you may have to take some weight of the bar, making it your back off set.

So your set and weight progression would look something like this:

4-6 reps warm-up
4-6 reps slightly heavier
4-6 reps heavy
4-6 reps heavy
4-6 reps back off set (optional) After 2 heavy sets you probably don't need the back off sets.

Remember if you want to get bigger you MUST lift bigger weights!! Meaning heavier. Try this split or 5x5 for a few week. Take care to EAT and REST enough. If you don't take care for proper recovery you won't progress at all.

A lot and I mean a LOT of people just don't take enough care for their recovery and think the eat a lot when they are not.