muddy's Training Log

[mpetry]

ah yeah, the rip video. that's been a goal of mine ever since I saw it.

[guru]

Split squats is the assistance work I'm going to add too. Agree with you on both counts - They are damned hard & I don't think it is possible to work to half of 1 RM of back squat on these, even if you are using a barbell. Unilateral work is a different beast altogether.

[Kathy]

Thanks goodness you guys mentioned this about split squats! I have been doing them (w/tiny 12.5lb DBs) instead of squats while my back heals and I have wicked DOMS from them every time. Ouch!
Muddy, where did you read that you can work up to 50% 1RM back squat on these? I hadn't even considered doing these w/a barbell but now I'm going to have to. <Groan>.

[muddy]

There was a thread awhile back on "the death of the squat", where these two links were posted:

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_arti ... a_time&cr=

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_arti ... b_training

The first one has the "half of 1RM back squat weight used for a split squat" idea.

I find it utterly stupid in the original link where the guy looks in the camera and says something like, yeah, that's right, I'm saying don't squat anymore. He seems a lot more reasonable in the above t-nation articles where he tends to view these split squats as hitting weaknesses, rather than the single exercise to save us all.

Ok, I feel a lot of typing coming on. I feel this is more to clarify in my own head my views. Pardon me while I talk to myself.

Even there, I still think that Massachusetts experiment is pretty flawed, and I don't even mean the lack of control group. Examples:

• What evidence is there you can simply assume half a back squat should be what you can do in a split squat?
• He doesn't state what the set-and-rep scheme is like for RFESS. Further, the final a rep effort test is NOT a strength test, and it is a very different beast than a 1RM strength test. He is thus comparing apples to grapefruit. Why complicate the test like that?
• He's estimating 1RM for back squats for a group that doesn't backsquat. What's the margin of error there? 20%? 30%? If otherwise good athletes started squatting for just a few weeks, how much would that number change?
• In addition to estimating 1RMs rather than just finding each player's 1RM, why not also repeat the 1RM squat test at the end, rather than talk about what their 1RM might have been? Why not also do the split squat rep test at the start? As the comparison stands, we cannot put the split squat results into any comparative perspective.
• Further, what happens if you repeat the RFESS cycle? I would wager you do not see the same dramatic gains. And what does this imply? Most likely: we've found a weakness, and it covers some different areas than a back squat.
• My experience of postseason training from wrestling is I came out of a season weaker in the weight room than I went into it. Of course 6 weeks of post-season training is going to show good numerical increases in the weight room.

That's really just for starters, but it's mainly the 5th bullet point (repeating the cycle) that to me would make it clear (if actually tested) that this exercise is hitting a weakness, and it is not some new bit of exercise magic. More along these lines: his explanation for why he believes the program to be effective also makes no sense. His best athlete had an estimated 1RM squat of 460. My last tested 1RM was 465, so I'm about the same from a squatting perspective. He claims it is "obvious" that the back is the limiting factor, and hence needs to be removed from the equation to help increase leg strength. So then:

• Why is it I do not believe my back is at all the current limiting factor in my squat. It's not what I am training hard to push my squat to 495, and I expect when I test again in 3 weeks, my squat will be 475 or maybe even 485? Time will tell on that one, but I am very confident I'll hit that.
• More theoretically, why is one leg strength "more functional" than strength where both legs and the back are in the picture? Perhaps more functional for hockey players. But he doesn't quality his claim-- it's just "more functional".

No doubt the split squat is a great exercise. I look forward to see what it does, if anything, to my squat if I can increase the split squat anywhere close to 1/2 my 1RM squat max. (According to Boyle, my leg strength should just rocket up so I'm ready to squat 600, but my back just cannot support it. I look forward to that!) Talk is cheap, so if I have to eat my words after a few months of split squatting as an assist, I'll gladly do so. But I really do not expect it to be anything more than a very effective assist, much along the lines of GHRs, SLDLs, and some of the other assists I find most effective.

Ok, end of solipsitic ramblings!


BTW, a glute exercise that seems promising as a very good assist is a barbell hip thrust, which is described here.

[muddy]

Sun Nov 1 - Cycle 9 Day 1 : ME LB + Coan week 6

ME SQ: 5x45, 5x95, 5x135, 3x185, 3x225, 3x275, 1x315, 1x365, 1x405, 2x3x425 (3RM PR)
Coan week 6 (slightly truncated due to time)

• DL 3x245, 2x335, 1x425, 2x460
• DE DL 5x3x375 (90s rest)
• Shrugs 3x5x315
• SLDL 3x5x355
• SS bar arched GMs 3x5x170

[guru]

Congrats on the squat PR muddy.

[atypical1]

Nice PR and great write up on the split squat. It's funny that an author would assume that the limiting factor in one athlete would be the same limiting factor in another. I absolutely agree that the split squat is simply another tool to address potential weakness and is not as effective as the squat.

james

[Kathy]

Sweet squat PR Muddy!

Thanks for the info on the split squat. I find it strange that an experienced coach would assume that the back is the limiting factor in the back squat. It may be for a period of time (like it is for me now) but after I work on that weakness, continue squatting then something else will be the limiting factor. It was my hips and glutes before my lower back. I assume there will always be a weak point, I work on it, continue, find another weak area, work on it and so on. Is that your experience?

Those hip thrusts look, um, interesting. I am still a bit self conscious doing pull throughs. I do the glute bridge and single leg glute bridge w/40lb DB on my hips to get my glutes going but will give the thrusts a try at home.

[muddy]

Thanks all!

@Kathy: That's exactly my experience on the squat, yep! I wonder if that weakness will continue to rotate around or not - no idea about that. Yeah, I hear ya on the bb thursts - I can only imagine doing those at my old gym.

I've spent a lot of time lately thinking about what has worked and what hasn't since I started barbell training (Sept 2008 with SL5x5 beginners program), in an early attempt to assess this year's progress. It's going to be a case of good news, bad news.

It's becoming pretty clear to me I have a very good handle squats and increasingly good handle on DLs, and I have learned how to tweak my program on the fly and utilize various assists to get stronger on those lifts. I think I've started to see more clearly ways to pattern especially the assist work to be effective. I certainly don't mean to imply I think I "know it all" or something; I mean the trajectory is right. If I keep on keeping on, things will be good.

It's equally clear to me I've no idea what I am doing on my bench, and I've not even trained the OHP in ages, and that basically my upper body lifts are not at the same level (in terms of confidence, weight, technique, you name it) as lower body. I really do not think what I am doing is working, at all. I am starting to think I should go back to basics -- if not actual linear progression (probably with microloading to prevent stalls and take it slow), then something kinda in that ballpark (e.g. 5/3/1). That could still work out with what I do for my squats, deadlifts - I would still keep a ME/RE and DE days for squats & dls, but the other two days would become maybe a bench 5/3/1 (or linear) day and an ohp 5/3/1 (or linear) day. I'd probably opt for a BBB type assist template. That seems to fit best without making any changes that fundamentally change what is working in the LB arena.

Anyway, I'm still mulling this over, and trying to decide if I implement this before the end of the year or not.

[pagangoddess]

Anyway, I'm still mulling this over, and trying to decide if I implement this before the end of the year or not.

My vote is for not til the end of the year. You have other goals you want to accomplish & you're just about there. I'd hate to see you get sidetracked & not reach your year end goals. Once you have that under your belt then you can really focus attention on the UB lifts. But I could be wrong. You know yourself better than I do.

I know for myself to tackle one issue at a time. Not because of the physical energy it requires but the mental energy.

[muddy]

Tues Nov 3 Cycle 9 Day 2 - UBish day

BP: LN warmup, 5x45, 5x95, 5x135, 5c185, 5x215, 5x240
BP backoff: 5x10x170
French press: 3x8x90
DB front raise: 3x8x25
DB lateral raise: 3x6x25
DB rear raise: 3x8x25
Kroc rows: 1x20x140

@PG: Yeah, I think you're right about not tampering with anything that might affect recovery for Sun (ME LB) and Thurs (DE LB) days. Those days stay as is, and with the same amount of rest. In particular, nothing crazy on the lower back (e.g. lots of BB rows) on Saturdays.

[atypical1]

You're the freakin' Kroc row king!

james

[muddy]

Thurs Nov 5 - Cycle 9 Day 3 DE LB

DE Box SQ: 5x45, 5x95, 5x135, 5x185, 3x225, 3x275, 8x2x300
GHR: 5x10x(bw+10lb)
SS: 1x40x120 (dbs), 1x5x45 (bar), 3x5x75 (bar)
BB hip thrust: 10x135, 10x225, 3x8x315

@James: I'm sure you've seen those videos where they have what looks like a metal pole with every 10lb standard weight in the surrounding county on it, clamped off at both ends with lock joint pliers... one can dream, right?

[atypical1]

How were the hip thrusts?

james

[muddy]

@James: The surprise is how they require some serious ab tension. I found a cheap used bar pad to use just for this exercise (shhh!). While the pad makes it more comfortable in some ways, it really puts a lot more pressure on the lower abs. My impression matches that t-nation article which said these need to be done heavy to get the glutes to really kick in. I'll keep creeping up the weights each session so long as I can keep the reps at >= 5 and see how that feels. (Last time work sets were at 275.) By the end, I was getting that trembly feeling in the glutes (!), which is unusual for me. While that's no doubt a combination of the whole session, I think it was the hip thrusts that put it over the top. So I think I'm a fan, though it's still early yet.