My Gym Interviews Glenn Pendlay and Mark Rippetoe

[mdonnelly]

So I joined this gym a couple weeks ago. It was the only serious strength gym in the town I go to college in (Springfield, MO). Serious place, serious people, these guys know their shit. They have their own private message board for all their members, and most of the stuff they have posted there is pure gold. I truly had no idea what I was walking into, but I can say that I probably have never been more pleasantly surprised in my life.

Tea and Crumpets with Glenn Pendlay: http://www.stronggym.org/download/file.php?id=180

In the Trenches with Mark Rippetoe: http://www.stronggym.org/download/file.php?id=181

Practical Programming w/ Rip & Pendley: http://www.stronggym.org/download/file.php?id=182

Note: According to author of these articles, Matt Reynolds, they were done before anyone really knew who these guys were outside of North Texas and the Olympic Lifting community. Also, as I told them I was heavily inspired by Dave and Kyle Gulledge, it turns out that many of the members at this place actually trained with the brothers for a while. They have the pics to prove it too. They apparently own their own Chiropractic practice on Kansas City a few miles from where I live now. Here's the link: http://www.gulledgechiropractic.com/ I joined the right fucking gym, that's for sure.

[atypical1]

Sounds like you definitely joined the right gym!

The links aren't working for us here as you have to be a member. Thanks for thinking of us though.

james

[luco]

Sounds like you're on the way to becoming vey strong. Having inspirational people around you must be a huge benefit.

[holvoetn]

There are other sources for the same articles if you search a bit

Tea and Crumpets with Glenn Pendlay: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/core_march_1.htm

In the trenches with Mark Rippetoe: http://www.scribd.com/doc/3483857/In-th ... t-Reynolds

I couldn't find the 3th one ...

[mdonnelly]

Oh sorry guys, I didn't realize that it wouldn't let you guys view it. The other two links posted by holv are solid. Here's transcript of the 3rd interview.

All credits for this interview goes to Matt Reynolds, Glenn Pendlay, and Mark Rippetoe. Also to William McNealy for hosting the pdf download for this interview on his gym's message board.
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Programming: With Mark Rippetoe & Glenn Pendlay

By Matt Reyonolds

In our last interview we talked with Mark Rippetoe, owner of Wichita Falls Athletic Club
and author of Starting Strength on how to coach beginners in weight training. This
month the man who drinks his own home-made mead from a horn is back, this time with
fellow coach Glenn Pendlay (the man who once mentioned that you could add a
surprising amount of alcohol to DQ Mister Misties before anyone noticed) to answer
specific questions about programming from beginners all the way to elite level athletes.
Beginners:

Matt: Ok, let’s start at the very beginning – a very good place to start. How young is too
young to start a strength training program? We’ve heard for years that weight
training will stunt a kid’s growth. Would you like to put that rumor to rest now?
Glenn: There is a chapter included in Mark’s book written by Lon Kilgore that specifically
deals with the misconceptions about youth training. I personally don’t see any
physical problems. We don’t hesitate to put kids in soccer or gymnastics at 4-5
years of age, either of which are way more stressful on the body than weight
training, and either of which are way more likely to cause injury. So I think the
whole safety thing is a non-issue. I’m more concerned with a kids mental
development. Just like with any other recreational activity, if the kid is mature
enough to follow directions and keep his mind on task for a reasonable amount of
time, he can do it. If not, he can’t. I’ve got a 7 year old girl right now who does
really well. I’ve also seen kids quite a bit older who really shouldn’t be in the
weight room.

Rip: I would just like for somebody to explain to me why it would stunt a kid’s growth.
Do they actually think it smashes them down shorter, or shuts off the supply of
growth hormone due to pressure in the skull, or that it destroys all the growth
plates, or that it pisses off the Tooth Fairy? My god, how do these silly things get
started? Here’s another good one: once you stop training all the muscle turns to
fat. I like to tell people that ask me about this that the muscle actually turns to
bone. That makes exactly the same amount of sense.

Glenn: One thing I like to explain to people who are hesitant to put their kids in any sort
of resistance training program is the concept of adjustability. Weight training is
adjustable, infinitely adjustable, while most activities are not. This actually makes
it MORE appropriate than many other things for people, including young kids,
whose physical abilities aren’t that great. When you do a handstand, jump up
and land, or run into somebody on the soccer field, the stress that these things
transmit to the body is determined by the laws of physics and the bodyweight of
the participants. Gravity doesn’t give a break to the guy with weak legs. With
weight training, we can adjust down to whatever is appropriate to start with, even
if it’s a broomstick, then gradually add from there in whatever increments and at
whatever speed is reasonable. You never have to ask someone to do something
that they aren’t ready for or strong enough to do safely, no matter how young or
weak they are. My 3 year old son did a pretty good set of 10 the other day on the
overhead squat…with a broomstick. That’s resistance training, and it illustrates
what is appropriate for that age, playing with a broomstick and copying the older
kids and having fun.

Matt: So how would you train young kids?

Rip: By young, I assume you mean prepubescent. I have always just taught them the
lifts, yelled at them about absolutely correct form all the time, and let them lift as
much as they can for sets of 5. They go up as they are able, with very small
jumps and no more than 3 workouts per week. They are not strong enough to lift
enough weight to get injured. It is virtually impossible to get hurt with absolutely
correct form anyway, and correct form precludes any use of more weight than
can be safely handled. They are also encouraged to eat right, eat a lot, and
sleep.

Glenn: Mark deals with a lot of kids in the 12 to 14 age group. The way he does it is
absolutely right. By definition, if they are doing a certain weight or exercise while
following his program, they are strong enough to do it safely. In my opinion,
there simply is not ANY better way to handle this age group. I often work with
even younger kids, right down to the 7-8 year old age group. It’s necessary, if
you want to develop the very best weightlifters (the sport, not the activity) to start
young. With this age group you have to pay attention to the mental side of
things, the attention span. So I do more variety with these kids, and don’t have
quite the set in stone program for them that either Mark or I use for older kids.
More “fun” type of activities so that they are doing different types of things every
week and don’t get bored.

Matt: Mark, in your book, Starting Strength, you go in depth about how to coach
absolute beginners. However, one thing we didn’t cover in last month’s interview
is how specifically you set up their programming. I noticed from reading the book
that you do just a handful of core exercises, usually for 3 sets of 5 reps and
utilize progressive overload until they stall. Could you go in a bit more depth
about that programming?

Rip: It’s really not much more complicated than that. If it was, it wouldn’t be useful.
We teach correct form on the lifts, determine how much weight can be used for
sets of 5, and then add a little to each exercise every workout, the amount
depending on the exercise, until that simple linear progress stops. The more
careful the trainee is about picking the increase, about not getting greedy, the
longer the progress can be maintained. All assistance exercises are done after
the core lifts, if at all, and for sets of 10. We do some glute/ham work and some
reverse hypers, and a few arms. Chins I consider to be a semi-core lift, and we
do those to failure for 3 sets until failure exceeds 12 reps, at which time we add
weight to get the reps back down in the strength-training range.

Matt: Why do you guys like 5 reps so much? How often do you utilize other rep
schemes?

Rip: On page 200 of Starting Strength, (I NEED THIS ILLUSTRATION ) figure 7
integrates a huge amount of information about how human physiology responds
to exercise, and provides a very clear way to see the relationship between the
number of reps in a set and the effect on the body. Five reps is good because it
provides a general strength response, and strength is cool.
I use more reps when I want to produce a specific hypertrophy response, such as
bicep training. Now, not many people care how strong their biceps are, since
there aren’t many strict curl contests anymore. They just want them to be bigger.
So we train biceps for 10-15 reps, and do fives for them occasionally so that we
can do more weight on the sets of 10. Lower reps are used for the obvious stuff,
like getting the squat, bench, deadlift, and press up, and for the Olympic lifts
since they are explosive/technique movements. Nobody does sets of 20
snatches around here, at least not since I tried them that time and made such a
mess on the platform. But this is all basic stuff that most people know. Fives are
just a good number of reps: enough work to make you grow, not so many that the
spotters wander off.

Glenn:I answered a question in another interview recently by saying that I knew I could
come up with a detailed scientific answer that demonstrated my command of
muscle physiology and made me look really smart, but that it would in reality be a
load of bull. Pretty much the same thing here. I’ve tried other things, I always
come back to multiple sets of 5 simply because I’ve yet to find anything else that
works as well. For all our strength exercises, squats, presses, things like that,
we do most of our work with 5 reps.
Intermediates/ 5x5:

Matt: Ok, moving on…Let’s talk about intermediates and specifically the 5x5. First let’s
look at the 5x5 tweak that has floated around the internet and was rumored to
have started at your hands, Mark, though I believe was originally typed and
posted by Glenn:
The 5x5:
Monday: Full Squats, Benching, Barbell Rows
Wednesday: Full Squats, Military Presses, Deadlifts, Chins
Friday: Full Squats, Benching, Barbell Rows
Bill Starr, the greatest strength coach who ever lived, popularized this in the
70's with his great book, The Strongest Shall Survive, which was aimed at
strength training for football. I believe he had essentially two different programs
which both are 5 sets of 5. The first, which is more suitable for beginners, is to
simply do 5 sets of 5 with similar weight jumps between each set so that your
last set is your top weight. When you get all 5 on the last set, bump all your
weights up 5 or 10lbs. Example for squat... 185 for 5, 225 for 5, 275 for 5, 315
for 5, 365 for 5. If you get 365 for 5, move all weights up. This is especially
good for someone who is just learning a particular exercise like the squat,
because the amount of practice with light but increasing weights is a good way
to practice form.
For more advanced lifters, he advocated a warm-up, then 5 sets of 5 with a set
weight. For example, the same athlete used in the other example may do 135
for 5, 185 for 5, 225 for 3, 275 for 2, 315 for 1, then 350 for 5 sets of 5. When
successful with all 25 reps at 350lbs, bump the weight up the next workout by 5
or 10lbs.
This is not outdated, and is a good program for gaining strength. Many elite
athletes still use it during at least part of the year. I in fact do 5 sets of 5 on
squatting for 4 weeks as part of an 8 or 10 week training cycle. Personally, I do
it 3 times a week, but most people will probably make better progress doing it 2
times per week, or even doing version 1 once a week, and version 2 once a
week.
In any event I described a system in a post a while back that goes something
like this:
Monday use the heaviest weight you can for all 5 sets (same weight each
set)---- in other words when you get all 5 sets of 5 reps up the weight (most
workouts you will get 3 or 4 sets of 5- and maybe your last one will be for 3 or 4
reps)
Wednesday use 10-20% less weight- in other words if you used 200lbs on
Monday use 160-180lbs on Wednesday- actual amount depending on your
recovery
Friday work up to a max set of 5.
In other words let’s say that your best ever set of 5 is 215lbs and you used
200lbs on Monday for 5 sets and 170lbs on Wednesday. On Friday your
workout might be like this; 95 for 5, 135 for 5, 175 for 5, 200 for 5, then attempt
220 for your last set of 5.
This tends to work better as a long term program than doing the same thing 3
times a week. On exercises where you only do them once a week like deadlift
you can just do the 5 sets of 5 like I described. On Monday, on exercises that
you are only doing twice (rows) you could do both exercises like the Monday
workout or lighten one of them depending on your recovery ability. Be
conservative with the weight when you start- that is important.
Also I have used this program VERY often with athletes and it IS result
producing.
However many of your gains will show up after you use it for 4-6 weeks and you
switch to training a bit less frequently and lower the reps and volume. However
this is one program I have had a LOT of success with. In fact I rarely if ever use
it with athletes who are at the top of their weight class because it causes too
much weight gain unless you severely restrict your food.

Glenn: That’s something I typed up around the 1999-2000 time frame if memory serves.
Kind of confusing and a few grammar mistakes, but that’s typical for anything I
write which doesn’t get edited by Mark before it gets sent out. We still use that
basic program an awful lot, although we usually substitute front squats for the
lighter Wednesday back squats. Heavy front squats and light back squats are
about the same to recover from.
I’m the one who came up with that particular permutation of the program, but it’s
impossible to attribute it to one person. All our training methodologies here in
Wichita Falls have come from collaboration. You start with Bill Starr, let Mark
apply and tweak his ideas for 20 years, then add the Westside and OL influence I
brought with me when I moved here and that’s how we came up with our present
philosophy.
This particular program is the single most used squat program at Wichita Falls
Weightlifting. We do it just like this, with the exception of front squats on
Wednesday instead of lighter back squats. The front squats are done for heavy
triples. This particular squatting program is the most useful one I have used for
people in their first couple of years of training.
It’s funny, around the time I first put that up on the web, NO ONE was talking
about that kind of training. If you went to a powerlifting website, you talked about
Westside, if you went to a bodybuilding website you talked about drug cycles and
how many sets and exercises to do on back day, which always came exactly one
day a week. No one wanted to talk about training with sets across instead of
failure, or managing weekly volume, or heavy weeks or light weeks. Now it’s all
over the place, people are talking about Westside for skinny guys or Westside for
beginners and incorporating multiple sets of 5 into the max effort day, on
bodybuilding sites you have HST, which is similar in many ways to what we do,
as well as tons of people who are using sets across and training movements not
muscles, and training muscles multiple days a week.
Medium reps and multiple sets across and squatting 3 days a week is a proven
method of getting strong. People are rediscovering this type of training and it still
works, just like it did 20-30 years ago.

Matt: It also seems that you guys begin using specific, planned periodization with your
lifters as they progress into the “intermediate” status. Glenn has also spoken of
an 8 week squat program that pairs well with the 5x5, but adds periodization to
the program…
(Glenn excerpt): 8 WEEK SQUAT PROGRAM
(run in conjunction with the 5x5)
I do squats only. However I also do alot of other pulling motions off the floor,
and these also work the legs. as far as squats Monday 5 sets of five with a set
weight Wednesday, 5 sets of five with a weight that is 10-15% less than
Monday. Friday, work up with sets of five, going for your best set of five. Here’s
an example of how we do this...
Lets say a person has a previous best of 5 sets of five weight with 300lbs, and
has done one set of five with 325lbs for this person I may start with Mondays
weight of 285lbs, Wednesdays weight of 255lbs, and on Friday work up to a set
of five with 310lbs, however if this person never trained this way before I would
be much more conservative, more on that later then make small jumps each
week, maybe week 2 use 295, 260, and 320 for the three workouts, week three
use maybe 305, 265, and 330...and so on.
however keep this in mind, if on Monday you cannot do all five sets of five keep
the weight the same the next week, and on Friday if you fail on a weight you
choose keep the weight the same the next week
now, here’s a few more hints, if you are not use to this sort of training and know
you are gonna be sore as hell the first couple weeks, simply start more
conservatively with the weight. if you are used to this sort of training, you can
be a bit more aggressive from the start.
Also as the weeks go by, don’t increase Wednesdays workout as much as the
other two. Also some people are able to handle a heavier Wednesday workout
than others. I have had athletes who have reacted best if Wednesday’s workout
was only 5% less than Monday’s weight. I have seen others who needed 25%
reduction, however the average seems to be 10-15%, maybe if your new to this
training start with 25% reduction then next time try 10-15% reduction.
With people new to this program I usually use it for 6-7 weeks, because we
start more conservatively and it takes longer to get the benefits. with people
who have done it before I generally go with 4 weeks at a time and go with
setting records on Monday and Friday of week 3, week 4 is to try even more
weight if week 3 was successful, if it wasn’t, then try record weights again. After
this routine is over, we drop the frequency to about two workouts a week or
even a bit less, and drop volume usually to 3 sets of 3.
The first week, we use the same weight as on the last Monday of the 5 sets of
five workout. This helps with recuperation. Then, as in before we add weight
each workout, this time aiming to break records on the fourth or fifth 3 sets of 3
workout.
Sometimes we cycle on down to 1 set of three for two or three workouts, other
times we have an offloading week then start with the five sets of five again.
I probably left some things out, i always seem to. however, although there are
other programs that i am sure are effective, i have used alot of leg training
programs and this one i know works, i have used this routine on probably over
100 athletes with success all around. it is not unusual for an athlete to increase
their leg strength 100lbs in the full squat in the first six months i work with them.
now i know of other people who have tried this program on my recommendation
in the track and field world, and not have the success i have had. However they
always make the same mistakes, either starting on week one with max weights
and not taking a week or two or even three to work up to max weights, OR, they
start in on the 3 sets of 3 with too heavy a weight... you have to adjust the
volume. don’t be in too much of a hurry.
Be content to set records on week 3, not week 1. Well that’s about it, but if your
patient and do it right, it will be effective."....
wow that was a mouthful ok, that is what i was talking about, although in that
post i didnt explain a couple of things that i would like to now.
As you see from reading that, were talking about 4-6 weeks basically of a prep
phase, and 3-5 weeks of a peaking phase, so it’s not really an 8 week program
all the time. Every time i write this program out, it’s a bit different, that’s
because it’s not a set in stone thing, but an example of a training philosophy...
and it can and is altered in the details for individuals. However, there is one
important point concerning what can be altered and still get the desired effects.
During the initial phase where 5 sets of 5 are used, you must stick to the written
workout frequency and volume. No matter what, do the required sets 3 times a
week. If you feel like you’re really dieing, then cut the weight back. But in the
initial portion, the volume and frequency shouldn’t be messed with. Now, when
you go to the sets of 3, you need to begin with the weight specified, and go up
each workout, and you should be fairly rested each workout.
that means that you MAY be able to squat 2 times a week at this point,
however you may need to squat once every 4 or 5 days, depends on the
individual. Also, 3 sets of 3 is a good volume for the first week of this phase, but
often people react better to 2 or even one top set per workout during the
second, third, or 4th weeks of this phase. During this phase, it’s the opposite of
the first phase, he weight increases are the important thing.
Take enough rest between workouts and cut the workout volume enough to
assure that you are recovered enough to raise the weight. Hope this clarifies a
bit. The 3 day a week program I wrote was an example of a basic 3 day a week
program for a relative beginner. I meant it to be done without any other
assistance work except maybe abs. Of course, an advanced lifter would
probably not do that workout exactly as written.
As far as the "peaking" part of the squat program, I usually use this with shotputters
and athletes like that, and don’t necessarily do it with a program like the
3 day a week program, although if you were doing that and wanted to "peak" a
particular exercise, it would work.
basically, if you are not going to try to peak strength, you need to be more
careful when doing the 5 sets of 5 three days a week, and not get the weights
up so heavy that you start to overtrain... a more gradual increase in weighs is
called for, and you must use a little common sense and not push so hard you
need rest... when trying to peak you just push and keep pushing on the last
couple of weeks of the 5 by 5... you push right to the brink of overtraining
basically, then back the volume and frequency off with the sets of 3.

Glenn: That’s really just an explanation of how to use the previously described program
as part of a peaking plan. There is nothing complicated here. You just work real
hard with heavy weight and a pretty high volume of work, then cut the volume
and peak. Rip talks about trying to squat and make a PR set of 5 every squatting
workout with beginners, then you have the routine described above, and the
“peaking” variation also described, and what you are really seeing is how we
change training over time.
A beginner will be able to increase strength with a minimum of change from week
to week or day to day in training. The version of 5X5 that I previously described
has a little variation. It’s appropriate to use when you can no longer come in to
squat 2-3 times a week and add 5lbs to your old 5RM just by putting the weight
on the bar and getting under it. This small amount of variation in this program,
(higher volume on Monday, a lighter day on Wednesday, then high intensity on
Friday), is usually enough to keep the gains coming for a while. Eventually, you
have to add some twists to keep it working, for instance, backing the weights off
once in a while by 15kilos, then adding 5k per week to the bar so that you give
yourself a 3-4 week run at a new personal record, pushing Mondays workout for
a while, then stopping the weight increases on Monday, maybe backing off 10k
on Mondays weights, and pushing Fridays weights for a while. Stuff like that, just
minor adjustments in where the real focus is.
Eventually, you need more variation, and the program labeled above as the “8
week squat program” becomes appropriate. You work up to some pretty hard
high volume training and load the body very hard. Then you back the volume off,
unload, and go for some heavy weights as you get rid of all that fatigue and peak.
These programs work, but they mostly work because we use them in the correct
order, and use the appropriate one at the appropriate time. The key is starting
simple, and slowly adding complexity and extending the time between expected
new personal records.

Matt: Can you guys expand a bit on the 5x5, where it came from, and how you use it at
Wichita Falls.

Rip: Five sets of five is an old program. Mark Berry was using it back in the 30s on
his athletes, and Billy had me doing it for my bench. He had me using a rather
brain-embalming version of it he got from Doug Hepburn, who I suppose gave it
to him during an interview such as this when he was at Strength and Health.
Hepburn’s were actually quite a bit harder. They consisted of five singles
followed by five sets of five. The workout took a helluva long time to do and the
singles/fives combination was just a brutal thing to recover from. I tried it on
squats and deadlifts too, but the only thing it could even be considered for was
the bench. The singles were supposed to be near-limit, and the fives were
whatever you could do and still make all five reps of the last set. At some point I
began using the fives without the singles, after I had retired from competition. I
feel like that is a much better way to do the work. The workout is shorter, and the
fatigue from the singles was the limiting factor on the fives.
The way we do them now is actually a version of the Hepburn program. We do
5x5 for one workout, and the second workout we steal from Louie and do timed
explosive sets. Thieves, we are. Fives provide strength base, and force
production work is done on the explosive sets.
It is very important to understand how the fives go up in weight. They go up
slowly. Now, the vast majority of the world’s population is composed of impatient
assholes who get easily frustrated with having to obey the laws of physics and
physiology. For people such as this, 5x5 will not work, since they will insist on
trying to go up, for example, five pounds on the bench every workout. Since 5x5
is done once per week, they try to go up five pounds a week. Well, the bench
won’t get strong that fast. For an intermediate lifter it just won’t. It will for a
novice, and a novice doesn’t need this program until his 3x5, add weight every
time isn’t working any more. But for an intermediate or advanced lifter, five
pounds a week won’t go on the bench, or the press either. The squat and the
deadlift will move up five pounds per week since they involve more muscle mass
(if you want to try 5x5 on the deadlift, be careful since it may be impossible to
keep from overtraining, given the weights that can be used and the nature of the
deadlift). It is for this reason that small plates that allow for small jumps must be
part of your equipment if you do 5x5. If you are training at home, this is no
problem since small jumps can be improvised. But at a commercial gym, it is
important that the place be equipped with small plates: ½ pound, 1 pound, 1 ¾
pound, as well as standard 2 ½s. And if you’re going to take small jumps, it is
important to use the same bar and plates each time – the very same bar and
plates. Castings being imperfect creations, there is often more error in 240 lbs.
of bar and plates than the jump you are trying to make from last week. If you use
exactly the same equipment each workout, you can control your increase exactly
– even if the plates are off a little, the only difference is what you have just
added. At WFAC I have a couple of sets of marked plates, and all the bars are
numbered.
Patience is the key to 5x5. Many guys have gained many pounds of muscle
using 5x5 correctly and patiently. But if greed sets in, progress stops because
you’ll miss reps in the later sets. All five reps of all five sets must be finished.
This means small jumps, but it also means enough rest between sets. Any
workout that includes missed reps must either be slowed down (in the case of
more than one rep missed on more than one set), repeated (in the case of a
missed 5th rep on the 5th set) or lightened (in the case of reps missed on more
than the last set). If the jumps are small enough, progress can be sustained for
many weeks before this program will need changing.

Matt: Is it during the intermediate phase that you usually add in dynamic weight
training for the athletes (specifically concerning squatting, and possibly
pressing since OL lifts are very dynamic in and of themselves)? How
important is dynamic training (in the Louie Simmons sense of the word) for
athletes?

Matt: Furthermore, what is your stance on “sport specific training?” Now I’m not
talking Paul Chek bullcrap – I’m thinking more along the lines of Dr.
Michael Yessis. To what extent to athletes need “sport specific training” –
or do most athletes generally need similar things – general strength, speed,
agility, etc.?
Training Theory and Periodization:

Matt: Ok, before we move on to programming for the advanced strength athlete, let’s
talk about a few basics concerning periodization and training theory…
First, can you give us a good overview of the difference between the Single
Factor Theory (that most of the bodybuilding world subscribed to) and Dual
Factor Theory.

Glenn: Single factor theory is just supercompensation. You train, you tear down your
body, and the body builds itself back stronger. You repeat the process, trying
each time to do the next workout when the body is recovered and stronger and
you are starting at a slightly higher baseline. It’s a great model, and works well
for many people. It works well for almost every beginner. The problem is, the
body becomes resistant to change. The body adapts and pretty soon it’s very,
very hard to do a single workout that produces the desired response.
Dual Factor Theory looks not just at a single factor (physical ability) but at two
factors that combined make up physical ability, fitness and fatigue. Each training
session affects both, although the magnitude and duration of the effect is
different for each one. Looking at training in this way lets us make sense of
reality, what most elite athletes do even if they have never heard of any training
theory. They train tired. They are rarely fully recovered, except at major
competitions. They look at weeks and months of training the same way
beginners look at a single workout. One month of hard training to stress the
body and force a response, another month of easier training to recover. Periods
of more difficult training increase both fitness and fatigue (so that although fitness
is increased, performance at that time might not be), and periods of easier
training reduce fatigue while preserving fitness.

Matt: Second, Glenn and I touched on this in our interview earlier this year, but could
you review the basics and importance of loading, unloading, and peaking while
giving specific attention to manipulating the overall stress of a program by
keeping intensity high and varying volume?

Glenn: It is my opinion that much of the “periodization” that is done by many people
focuses too much on changing the means of training, and not enough on
changing the overall difficulty or stress on the body.
Changing the means of training can be things like changing exercises, rep
schemes, or rest periods. If you use these as your sole means of variation in
training, you may still never load your body hard enough to evoke a response, or
allow it the rest needed to realize the performance gain. Bear in mind here that I
am talking about intermediate/advance athletes. I believe that an athlete needs
to have periods of high stress training, and periods of low stress training. I also
believe that if you do this, concentrate on changing the stress level of your
training from week to week and month to month more and changing the training
means less, it allows you to be more efficient in training, to stick to what works in
other words. There are only so many changes you can make in rep schemes
and exercises before you are doing things that aren’t of much use to your
particular sport.

Matt: Let’s discuss some of the main forms of training, Bulgarian style training,
Westside, the old linear periodization powerlifting training cycles, Russian style
training, or anything else you think is important.. Why might one work in one
instance but not in another? How should a person decide what to use?

Glenn: Every type of training works at some point, none work in every instance.
Furthermore, athletes have gotten to the top using just about every type of
training scheme out there. You realize that and it is tempting to say that hard
work is what counts and the training scheme is unimportant as long as you work
your butt off. There is some truth to this. Work hard enough and long enough,
and you can probably get to a high level on almost any reasonable program.
The problem is determining what is the BEST and QUICKEST way to progress.
This changes as the career of the athlete advances. What drives progress in the
first 6 months is not necessarily what drives progress in the 4th year. The
programs you mentioned are all appropriate for some sports and situations, and
not ideal in others. I talked a little bit in response to another question about
training changing over time, about the appropriate amount of “variation” changing
over time. Choosing the correct training program is very simply a matter of
choosing the correct degree of “variation” and the correct training means.
For example, Bulgarian training is based on very specific training, making training
almost exactly like competition. Little or no variety in exercises or intensities.
Same thing over and over. This works very well for highly skilled athletes in
sports like weightlifting, where competition consists of two movements which are
intended to be done exactly the same, every single time. It wouldn’t be a very
appropriate way for a football player to use his time in the weight room, however.
Of what use would becoming very, very efficient at a couple of weight room
exercises be to him?
Powerlifting is sort of like weightlifting… but different in that high intensity
attempts at the competitive events are slower affairs, involve eccentric
contraction on 2 of the 3 lifts, and therefore are generally much harder to recover
from. This means a powerlifter, or at least the vast majority of powerlifters, can’t
train by doing 95-100% bench presses and squats every day. The “Bulgarian”
method just won’t work. Years ago almost all powerlifters got around this by
using a type of periodization usually called linear: intensity starting low and
rising, volume starting high and dropping over a certain time period, usually 8-12
weeks. This works and has produced a ton of great performances. However, a
problem with this, especially for the athlete who is at a high level, is that so much
of the training cycle is spent doing things that aren’t that specific to a single rep
bench, squat, or deadlift. As I said earlier, if you change the means of training
too much, you compromise the effectiveness of the training. This is the major
shortfall of linear periodization.
Westside was developed by Louie as a way around this problem, and allows a
powerlifter to do what many weightlifters do, train year round with a training
means that is very specific to competition. As I mentioned, most weightlifters do a
ton of high intensity attempts with the competitive lifts, the training is pretty
specific to what is done in competition. Because of the different nature of the
competitive lifts, powerlifters simply can’t do this. Louie has solved this problem
in a couple of ways. The dynamic effort day uses speed instead of weight, but
you still get a lot of attempts on the lifts where you are pushing or pulling as hard
as you can, much more similar to competition than say, sets of 10, or any of the
things that a linear periodization training cycle inevitably starts with. The max
effort day uses heavy weights, max weights, the straining and slow movement
are similar to competition, but they can do it week in and week out because the
exercises are changed continually. It’s a system that is much, much more
specific to what a powerlifter actually has to do in competition than most of what
you do in a linear periodization program.
Instead of focusing on what kind of periodization is best or worst, people should
be focusing on what is appropriate to them. The typical powerlifter training cycle
of the 80’s, lowering reps and raising weight over time, along with beginning a
cycle with relatively easy training that got harder towards the end obviously
works with a wide variety of people. Some of the greatest powerlifters of all time
used this style of training from the first workout of their career to the last.
Workable, yes, but not ideal in every situation. Usually a beginner using a
program like this is taking the progress they could make in a week or two and
drawing it out to a several month period. The reason is simple. An experienced
lifter might be happy with 5lbs of progress after an 8 week training cycle. A
beginner should be able to put that much on their squat almost every single
workout. Following an 8 week cycle will make a beginner stronger, but not as
fast as they are capable of getting stronger.
Each athlete should try to determine which training style fits them, what is the
training program that is most specific to their sport and still “doable”. For
weightlifting, that means getting as close to the Bulgarians as possible. If I were
a powerlifter, I’d be using Westside. A football player doesn’t need specificity in
training like a weightlifter or powerlifter. He has to be strong not on one particular
thing, he has to be strong and fast in as wide a variety of situations as possible.
That means that programs that change the training means over time or provide a
wider variety of means are more appropriate. This doesn’t mean that a football
player should get away from focusing on things like squats and cleans and bench
presses and substitute a bunch of sissy exercises done with tiny weights, it just
means that not everything they do should be modeled around copying things
involved in training for a 1 rep max.
Whatever means of training you pick, progressing as quickly as possible also
involves planning the degree of variation that is appropriate. Whether you use
Westside style training or 5X5 to train your squat, if you are capable of increasing
the weight on the bar every week, you should be doing it, and not waiting around
for the end of an 8 week cycle to increase your weights. Likewise, if you aren’t
capable of progressing every workout or every week, you need to add some
long-range planning, and not let the appropriate long term stress and rest happen
once in a while by accident.
Advanced Lifters:

Matt: Ok, with that covered let’s tackle programming for advanced strength athletes -
(not competitive Olympic lifters (we’ll get to those), but rather football players or
general strength athletes. How do you program for these athletes? Do you
typically put them on an upper/lower or push/pull split?

Rip: Upper/lower works if you understand that lats are “upper”(since they attach to the
arms) and that “lower” means squats and pulls. There is much unnecessary
confusion about this. Push/pull is a rather arbitrary construct, since all muscles
contract, and it provides no functional, logical way to organize a workout. Do we
deadlift and squat on different days because one “pushes” and the other “pulls”?
Why? Do we bench and chin on different days, despite the fact that both heavily
involve the triceps?
I would argue that football players and general strength guys never get to be
advanced. Their emphasis is on other things, they spend significant amounts of
time training in ways that have nothing to do with specific performance under the
bar, and as a result may never advance beyond the intermediate level. The fact
that an athlete has been training for a long period of time does not necessarily
make him advanced. Glenn, Lon and I have talked about this quite a bit, and we
have decided the following: A novice lifter is someone for whom simple linear
progression – where an increase can occur every workout – is enough to
produce progress. An intermediate lifter is one who needs his training arranged
in longer periods of time – perhaps a week – so that the correct amount of stress
and recovery can be administered to facilitate progress. An advanced lifter is
one for whom weekly intermediate-type training is no longer working. Since we
have decided this, it is so. WE have spoken. I am helping Lon now with a book
that will deal with these topics.
The type of training, in terms of exercise choice and arrangement, should
obviously vary with the sport being trained for. Just screwing around in the gym
is not a sport, although it may be a very serious activity, and is certainly a
legitimate thing to do. I have done it for many years now. But the choice of
exercises is dictated by the goal of the trainee. An advanced athlete by definition
has a sport he is advanced in, and his training will be determined by it. If we are
going to a meet, we listen to coaches for the particular sport we are training for.
Glenn will have a different program for his lifters than Louie has for his. If we are
just training to stave off death, like I do, we do the exercises that cause us the
least problems, since our training goal is not much more complicated than that.
Matt: Ok Glenn, you can wet your chops here. While each athlete is quite different, can
you take us through some generalized idea of how you program for an
intermediate Olympic lifter all the way through to programming for your advanced
Olympic Lifters.

Glenn: I can give you a real simple explanation of how we start kids their first week,
and go from there all the way to a national championship, because its quite
simple and in fact boring.
We start beginners training 3 days a week. Each day they snatch, clean and jerk,
squat, and do some other general strength or conditioning movement. There is
no plan, no periodization. They do mostly singles on the quick lifts, sets of 5 on
squats. Some days they work up to max on snatch and clean and jerk, some
days they practice technique. Squat training is centered around trying for new
personal records every week.
Eventually the athlete will be at a point where they know how to do the lifts and
are pretty well adapted to the workload, and progress slows dramatically. When
this happens, we gradually add training sessions and add complexity to the
training. Added training sessions start out as light workouts on what was an off
day… a guy will go from training Mon, Wed, Fri only, to having heavy sessions
on those days and lighter sessions on Tue, Thur, and Sat. The extra sessions
are added one at a time, not all at once. Eventually, the lifter will do around 12
workouts a week. My 2 or 3 best lifters do 15 workouts a week for about 3
months out of the year.
While this is happening, we will also go from doing all our snatch and clean and
jerk workouts the same (basically working up heavy if form is good, staying
lighter and practicing technique if it isn’t looking so good) to more variation, like
higher volume to lower, lifting from boxes some of the time, etc. By the time a
guy is in his 3rd year, he will have progressed from every workout unfolding based
on how he looks that day to definite periods of high volume and others of lower
volume, and weeks of higher stress and weeks of lower stress.
This is it, how to gradually go from 3 basic workouts a week to 10-12 workouts a
week with a weekly, monthly, and yearly plan. We stay as basic as we can. We
only add complexity when the simpler training isn’t working anymore. At the risk
of sounding like I am trying to drive home the same point again and again
throughout the interview, this plan of only adding complexity when it is needed is,
I think, a key concept in our training, one of the main reasons we are successful.
Conclusion:

Matt: While there is always more than one way to skin a cat, what are the things that
most good programs have in common?

Glenn: On a good program you are going to work hard. A good program will include
hard enough squatting that you really, really don’t want to do leg extensions.
Your going to be training your squat, not your quadriceps, your deadlift and not
your back, your bench and not your pecs. Your going to train large parts of the
body, even the whole body, in each workout.

Rip: All good programs produce quantifiable progress. They all require the athlete to
do certain prescribed things each workout. They all take the athlete’s current
training status into account. They are all specifically designed for the needs and
abilities of each athlete doing them. They all assume that the athlete will use
correct technique, and that adequate communication between coach and athlete
is occurring. Most importantly, all good programs must make the athlete want to
do them. A correctly designed program reinforces the athlete’s interest and
confidence in its ability to help him achieve his goals, causing him to do the
program because it works, because improvement is why he trains.

Matt: Guys, thanks again for an incredible interview!
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I also found this article here: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/weigh ... 47923.html

Enjoy!

[mdonnelly]

Here's something else you guys might like. My gym's Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/StrongGym

A lot of interesting exercises and Will's the freakin' man.