Overly Cerebral

[americanadian]

I realize AhBen posted a similar topic recently, but this is just out of control right now with arguments about set/rep schemes, to failure or not, positive failure or past it, lifting speed, diets out the ass, blah, blah, blah. I had some dude tell me his "average intensity" level for the week in terms of percent. Who cares?

The problem with cookie cutter lifting programs is people think too little and too rigidly stay within the confines of the program, to the detriment of their training.

But the inverse is also true of these mathematical super-duper-cycle-interval-phases of the moon- menstrual- it's all in the numbers programs: they make you overthink and overplan training, which I think is more dangerous because all of a sudden you have "science" and "numbers" on your side, making your ability to wrap your head around change that much more difficult. A little knowledge and a lot of ignorance are a dangerous combination.

Go in with a plan, keep a journal, try and be better this week than last week, get under the fucking bar and lift, HAVE FUN. How hard is that?

[pagangoddess]

get under the fucking bar and lift, HAVE FUN. How hard is that?

For some people it's very difficult.

IMO one of the problems this causes is information overload. Especially for someone like me who doesn't have the knowlege base to know what a good routine should consist of. Or how to match one to my goals.

I'd love to be able to just walk into the gym, have fun and lift. But I need more direction than that. So what is a person in my position supposed to do?

I understand what you're saying and I agree. All the fighting and disagreements over the technicalites of lifting has gotten absurd. They're hurting their cause more than they are helping.

[Dada]

Thanks for putting it out there. I was thinking about this the other day too. I think sometimes people get too caught up in theories that are usually too high level.

Also, sometime people get too caught up in the whole "don't fvck with the program" thing when someone suggests any changes. This is usually the wrong way of thinking since even the writers of most of the cookie cutters, suggest that it's just a guide and that people will need to tweak it to meet their needs / weaknesses. Except when it comes to a total beginner, I do think they are best not to change things until they get a little experience.

[lovestolift]

Go in with a plan, keep a journal, try and be better this week than last week, get under the fucking bar and lift, HAVE FUN. How hard is that?

Well said, AC. Especially the "HAVE FUN" part. You should enjoy what you do in the gym, as long as it isn't causing any damage. A good program is like a road map. It'll show you where to go, but it shouldn't stop you from enjoying the sights on the way.

[RobCosimo]

Watched a seminar by Jim Wendler on YouTube last night - and it was AWESOME. Basically, he said sets/reps etc don't matter. He said if you look at the strongest people in the world, the only constants are their attitude and the fact they have concrete goals.

And, even cooler, he said you should lift for 10-12 years without reading ANYTHING on the internet about weight training, so you can figure it out for yourself. He could squat 620lbs for two reps before reading about weight training or being coached, and he says that you can only learn a tiny bit from a book - you have to just get under the bar and figure it out for yourself.

He used the an analogy of driving to Chicago - just get in the car and f**king drive, don't sit in the car and 'plan' your trip. The important thing is, you know your destination.

This was like a big 'weight' (haha) off my mind. I just want to get back in the gym and learn for myself.

[mjh]

great post AC.

• Is stronglifts the best routine for me? Would I get better results on 3x5, a bb split or a Russian cyborg program? Maybe, I don't know and don't care. What I do know is that I'm having fun doing it and getting results that please me.
• How much of my weight gain is muscle, how much is fat/water/glycocen/my beard? I don't know and I don't care. I am happy with the changes I see in the mirror, and in the way I feel in my body. Frankly, if someone wants to quibble with me over the bodyfat I may have gained, they can fuck right off.

Go in with a plan, keep a journal, try and be better this week than last week, get under the fucking bar and lift, HAVE FUN

and don't bitch at others because they disagree with you (this is not at you, AC). There are few universal laws in weightlifting, I don't care how many studies you post. It boggles the mind that people can tell someone like AC that in theory his methods are counter-productive and have no basis in science, because in practice, they seem to have worked pretty well for him. That's like someone telling me to my face that I can't grow a beard.

Personally, would be happy to have more discussion of experience, and less of theory, and I would be very happy to never see another pubmed link or quote again.

[atypical1]

Personally, would be happy to have more discussion of experience, and less of theory, and I would be very happy to never see another pubmed link or quote again.

That is no shit right there (to use the vernacular). I'm so sick of hearing about this expert or that expert and how they think that exercise C is so much more superior to excercise D. Frankly, I'm getting quickly to the opinion that someone shouldn't even be able to answer a question on a given topic without having at least some first hand experieince with it.

PG hit it on the head with information overload. The internet has made it really easy for anyone with an opinion to appear to be an expert. I think the key is to find one decent source you trust and use that source for advice and guidance. Well, that and the "simple is better" mantra.

james

[chiltdog]

I've come to use this mantra during strength training and gaining weight:

If it's food eat it, if it's weight lift it.

What else do you need?

[Rugger]

The way I see it:

You have to lift some heavy weights. If lifting those heavy weights make it possible for you to lift heavier weights, keep doing that. If it didn't, figure out why, and lift some different heavy weights.

That being said, there isn't anything wrong with expanding your knowledge on lifting and trying to understand why we do the stuff we do, why it works, and how to make it work better. You just have to keep an open mind about things, cross reference everything you read with what you already know from personal experience (or the personal experience of other people who's opinions you trust), and not lose sight of the big picture.

[Mehdi]

Great thread.

I think that there are 2 reasons people make this mistake:
* They're perfectionists. Don't want to make errors, try to get everything perfect by controlling as much as possible (low self-esteem?). Problem is that you have too many variables you have no control over + lots of things science still can't explain about how our body works.
* They're too smart. Analysis paralysis. I posted this here: does-being-smart-matter-t13818.html I got some backslash, but stick to what I said. Being smart can work against you in many areas, this is one of them.

What works better is to do it and analyse afterwards. Instead of analyzing before you do something. Learn from mistakes/success. The former is hard for a lot of people, hence the "what's the best program" sort of threads.

[ekoehler0311]

Go in with a plan, keep a journal, try and be better this week than last week, get under the fucking bar and lift, HAVE FUN. How hard is that?

It is so easy for me to brain fuck something. Your statement is why I've enjoyed this program so much. Thanks for stating it so well.

[atypical1]

Great thread.
* They're too smart. Analysis paralysis. I posted this here: does-being-smart-matter-t13818.html I got some backslash, but stick to what I said. Being smart can work against you in many areas, this is one of them.

I'm not sure it's being smart per se. You can be pretty low on the IQ chart and still overthink things. It's either your first point about perfectionism or simply not wanting to commit to something.

james

[shaw557]

I've come to use this mantra during strength training and gaining weight:

If it's food eat it, if it's weight lift it.

What else do you need?

Nice - Mind if I borrow it!

I have spent years on the over thinking side of things, and what I came to recently is that...
Stick to the basics.. Tried and True!

[nburge]

This cookie cutter program stopped me being a lazy shit and made me realise much the same - lift consistently and give as much effort as you can. I 'needed' this particular program to work that out myself. I'm sure any program that enforced the same discipline would have led to the same conclusion though.

Ultimately people are impatient. It takes time to notice muscular gain. If I tell them that rubbing their ballsack in malt vinegar and putting chilli in their eye increases testosterone production in water voles by 13.8% therefore they ought to do the same to get results, they believe it. That's the business model of Mens Health etc etc. Their magazine subscriptions/sales would shit the bed if they told the truth - get under the bar and lift. Eat. Sleep. End of magazine.

I agree wholeheartedly with your post too. I do like reading the posts that cause this grief though - they're often some of the funniest on the site.

[nburge]

Addendum - form is the one area people are under-cerebral. I have a constant battle to ensure I progress my form and I'm sure thinking a bit more wouldn't hurt anyone.