Some unfortunate happenings at the Rippetoe forum

[TempestTenor]

1) I didn't post to the Rippetoe forums and say this to his face because I would just get shouted down there. Sure he might let my post through, but he'd just give me some indignant snippy response...followed by 5 other lackeys flaming me. What would be the point?

2) It's not just his opinions that upset me, it's his choice of language and the attitude behind his opinions. It's insulting, aggressive, and demeaning. There's always a better way of holding a discussion, no matter what the topic and what the opinion.

3) I was pretty upset by the thread and I needed to vent, which is why I chose to create this topic in the "off-topic" forum.

[Rugger]

2) It's not just his opinions that upset me, it's his choice of language and the attitude behind his opinions. It's insulting, aggressive, and demeaning. There's always a better way of holding a discussion, no matter what the topic and what the opinion.

3) I was pretty upset by the thread and I needed to vent, which is why I chose to create this topic in the "off-topic" forum.

You'll find that is a pretty common theme with his posts, which I personally find very refreshing. A lot of people like his style, as it's nice to see someone voice their opinions in such a straight forward and often quite humorous manner. I find it pretty strange that you are so upset about him holding different viewpoints than you, and would have issues with his strength training methodology because of it.

I don't want to get into my own (admittedly somewhat undefined) political views, but I did think that part of the post you are upset about him endorsing was very good.

I don't own any guns, never have, and my sum of firearms experience is military provided. Nonetheless, I've come to realize that there is a positive relationship between gun ownership and liberty, a relationship not based on the notion that my guns can keep an overreaching government out of my life, liberty and property (the original phrase, before "pursuit of happiness" got added during the rewrite)--a few handguns or carbines aren't going to stop that SWAT team determined to bust in to execute a warranted search for illegally imported orchids. But gun ownership clearly implies that I am first and foremost responsible for my safekeeping and my family's protection--I am responsible for myself, whereas the government only has the duty of creating the conditions whereby I can fulfill my responsibilities. I am responsible. This understanding, this key mindset, is missing from the vast majority of Europeans. It is why they are socialist, statist, fascist--they are more easily convinced that their all-powerful governments will do what's best for them, in spite of a full century of recent evidence to the contrary.

[tenkev]

I concur

[SardusPater]

I just laughed a lot reading OITW's posts regarding Italian crime and gun control.
He lives here, yet doesn't know a thing about our laws and police.

Just a week ago posting in an Italian forum I compared Italian most violent cities and US most violent cities to demonstrate that loose gun control usually means more murders


PS: BTW I was trying to register there, but I can't find where to do it..

[tenkev]

Comparing crime in Italian cities to crime in US cities is comparing apples to oranges. There are alot more variables than just gun control laws to consider.

[SardusPater]

Comparing crime in Italian cities to crime in US cities is comparing apples to oranges. There are alot more variables than just gun control laws to consider.

You're right.
I did that post to show that more guns in the hands of 'law abiding citizens' and "strong" police (with a loose trigger ) don't necessary means that crime rates will go down.


Nonetheless the guy said that in Naples there are 2,6 murders every 100 people (that would be 2600 murders EVERY YEAR only in Naples ), linking it to the fact that in Italy citizens can't have guns (which isn't true ).

In Naples there are 70 murders every year, more or less. 1 every 13000. (900.000 people in the city, 4.400.000 in the metropolitan area).
In Baltimore there are 250 murders every year, 1 every 2500. (1.600.000 people in the city, 3.100.000 in the metropolitan area).

They shouldn't be compared because every country is totally different, but for sure saying that italian cities are more violent compared to US because of the fact that citizens can't defend themselves is totally false

[JasonLB]

Allegations of xenophobia aside, OITW brought up some very interesting points about the shifting demographics of Europe. He's absolutely right that, by all indications, many European nations are facing Muslim majorities (or pluralities, at least) in the not too distant future. I don't know what the consequences of that will be, but I do wonder what happens to a Western democracy when its largest voting block no longer holds Western values (assuming that is an implication of the demographic changes currently underway). A fear of an Islamic takeover of Europe is hardly a new phenomenon, but it seems that the reality of it is much more likely now than at any other time since 1453.

[wrenchhands]

A) I see no shame in anyone being pro-gun. I am.

B) In addition to what JasonLB said, I know Europe has been having a bunch of trouble with their populations not assimilating. I'm thinking of the riots in france, the trying to adopt sharia law, the cartoon bomb drawing incident, and even that film maker being stabbed in the Netherlands. I'm not saying I agree with the dude on Rip's site completely, but I don't think it's just racist blathering.

Edit: And no, I'm not really a conservative. I was against Iraq War in 2003, I want us to stop bombing the middle east, but I agree that the importation of Sharia law sucks, and feel somewhat attached to the idea of an overarching culture being needed for a country *not* based on ethnicity to succeed.

PS Medhi, if you turn on politics, politics will turn on you.

[coreJack]

I live in a jurisdiction where gun ownership laws are onerous and gun crime is high (hardly surprising). If I were to move to a jurisdiction where gun ownership rules were more reasonable, I would buy a gun.

I applaud Rip for allowing that discussion to take place, and for shutting it down when it became uncivilized.

[RobCosimo]

I wonder if Rip was a socialist, whether that would have an impact on his following from the people who frequent his board? I think it would - it's hard to separate people's opinions into neat little boxes. If we could, we wouldn't have such emotional responses to things.

I admit I read that forum and got turned off by it - it made me wonder whether, if Rip is so black and white about these things*, maybe it affects his judgment on strength training. Not saying it would, but that was just my initial reaction.

*not what his politics are, just the way he expresses them

[atypical1]

it made me wonder whether, if Rip is so black and white about these things*, maybe it affects his judgment on strength training. Not saying it would, but that was just my initial reaction.

*not what his politics are, just the way he expresses them

That's an interesting question indeed. I think he is but I also think that's based on some strong convictions about what he's seen work and what he's seen fail over his years as a coach.

james

[Mehdi]

Allegations of xenophobia aside, OITW brought up some very interesting points about the shifting demographics of Europe. He's absolutely right that, by all indications, many European nations are facing Muslim majorities (or pluralities, at least) in the not too distant future. I don't know what the consequences of that will be, but I do wonder what happens to a Western democracy when its largest voting block no longer holds Western values (assuming that is an implication of the demographic changes currently underway). A fear of an Islamic takeover of Europe is hardly a new phenomenon, but it seems that the reality of it is much more likely now than at any other time since 1453.

It's already a reality in cities like Brussels. Belgian people are in a minority there, majority of arabs & EU people. The consequence is that it has an obvious influence: there are mosques in many cities here, you can find typical arab food & stores, there are all those EU festivities all the time, etc. The question is why you'd believe that would be bad thing.

People are in general afraid of the unknown and of change (or they had 1 bad experience years ago and take that the rest of their life with them). You'll never grow if you always stay within your comfort zone. Opening yourself up to other cultures is great way for self-dev. That's why we travel. With the mix of cultures, you can get this locally.

Stop watching tv & reading newspapers, and get out of your house and go make friends with those people you are afraid of. People are all the same and want the same thing. I've got friends from all ethnicies: black, russian, dutch, french, spanish, asian, ... and we get along fine.

B) In addition to what JasonLB said, I know Europe has been having a bunch of trouble with their populations not assimilating. I'm thinking of the riots in france, the trying to adopt sharia law, the cartoon bomb drawing incident, and even that film maker being stabbed in the Netherlands. I'm not saying I agree with the dude on Rip's site completely, but I don't think it's just racist blathering.

Are you saying it's some evil gene? You can't draw conclusions based on some events. The stuff you mentioned are the result of something that started 40y ago and of rascism everywhere in Europe (extremist parties are in governments in several countries, news keep feeding on it).

Governments neglected the assimilation part when they first brought them here years ago. Now stuff are all messed up. Feeding people with fear is not going to help. They aren't going back anywhere, those people got kids born & raised here. The only solution is get along and get used to it.

[wrenchhands]

I'm just saying assimilation is important, and I can see why people might be angry.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnyways, I'm not gonna lecture europeans about race relations from across the pond, anymore than I would want them telling me how to feel about America's race problems.

I've got friends from all ethnicies: black, russian, dutch, french, spanish, asian, ... and we get along fine.

But no Americans.... Medhi, this summer, I'm coming to visit. We can lift together. I'll help *you* double your lifts. (Hint: Convert from KG to pounds to add a ton on.I can only bench 60 kg's, but something like 135 pounds)

[Mehdi]

I'm just saying assimilation is important, and I can see why people might be angry.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnyways, I'm not gonna lecture europeans about race relations from across the pond, anymore than I would want them telling me how to feel about America's race problems.

I've got friends from all ethnicies: black, russian, dutch, french, spanish, asian, ... and we get along fine.

But no Americans.... Medhi, this summer, I'm coming to visit. We can lift together. I'll help *you* double your lifts. (Hint: Convert from KG to pounds to add a ton on.I can only bench 60 kg's, but something like 135 pounds)

No worries, was messing with you with the gene thing. Living in Europe doesn't mean you've got a more accurate way of things anyway.

I've got American friends too!

[JasonLB]

I admit I read that forum and got turned off by it - it made me wonder whether, if Rip is so black and white about these things*, maybe it affects his judgment on strength training. Not saying it would, but that was just my initial reaction.

Without a doubt I think it does. He's definitely not what I would consider an opened minded person -- new ideas, especially those that run counter to his beliefs, seem to get dismissed without much consideration. There's not a whole lot of "grey" in Rip's world, that's for certain. But, on the other hand, that's not to say he doesn't make compelling arguments. I think this is just a prime example of why critical thinking, rather than the perceived authority of a source, is so important when digesting information. People get so caught up with certain schools of thought -- oddly enough, this holds true even with something as relatively trivial as weightlifting -- that information becomes an all or nothing proposition, so that a certain coach or training philosophy is either 100% right or 100% wrong.