Squat and DL Form Check

[Barry101]

I've been on SL since about Feb of this year. Zero weightlifting experience prior to going w/the program. I've been having trouble lower back pain when the weight gets heavy. Here lately, more the next day than while lifting. This is my second injury related pause in my progress on squat and deadlift.

Deadlift first. This is the one lift that has given me the most problems. Two things I noticed immediately upon viewing these. Back is rounded and my chest is not up.

Deadlift 1


Deadlift 2 (close up)


Squat


My problems on squats become more pronounced once the weight gets around 230lbs. My hips rise faster than back and I get a little bit of GM. Even at this light weight, I noticed a slight tendancy to lean my body forward as I go into the hole and come back up. Perhaps I need to sit back just a little more. It has taken a ton of mobility work to get to this depth.

Please comment away. Thanks in advance for any tips!

Barry

[jpez]

Back rounding on the deadlift? I didn't notice any rounding and your form looked good also on the deadlifts but I'm no expert. It'll be interesting to see what the more experienced guys have to say.

[muddy]

Deadlift: For some reason, I find it hard to make out your hip angle in the deadlift videos. I'm not sure if it's a body type thing, clothing, or what. If the hip angle is what I think it is (and I think it is-- I think in the first video, the buttwink on the way down in the last few reps confirms what I think your starting hip angle is), you're starting off with your hips way out of line with your spine, which is definitely going to cause your lower back some grief. If you stand up straight and make a proud chest, hold that and feel with one hand the curve of your lower back as it goes into the pelvis. You want to work on flexibility so that you can maintain that shape in your back/hips at the start of the deadlift.

Second thing is I would experiment with perhaps setting your hips a touch higher at the start. This may also help with the flexibility issue. You could also play with foot angle and foot spacing - you could try a touch wider, or a slight angling out of the toes. If you try that, you may want to video it so you can analyze it, or else repost here.

Last thing is there is an ever so slight tendency to turn this into a SLDL, where your knees want to lock out early, and your torso angle relative to the floor ever so slightly tends to close at the start. It should remain constant, and then open as the bar passes your knees.

Squat: same flexibility comments. You are going well below parallel, and until you can work on flexibility a little more, you may want to cut the squat short at just below parallel in order to prevent unnecessary back rounding.

Also, you are tending to carry the weight forward of your own center of gravity. On the drive up, the bar goes forward. This needs to stay in a vertical groove over your own center of gravity, which is about the mid-foot to back third of the foot.

It's hard to see from this angle, but it appears the knees are slightly buckling in on some reps. Really shoving them out as you drive up will help with the above.

[Barry101]

Thanks for the fast replies guys!

@Muddy: I see what you are talking about with the butt wink on the DL (this is what I was refering to as rounded). I start off in that position and it increases on some reps. I'll try some diff foot spacings and a higher hip position as you suggest. W/squat, I've noticed the tendancy to lean forward with the weight. I've been trying really hard to correct this. It becomes much worse at higher weights, almost an "L" shaped bar path. I asssume most of this is hip mobility and tight hams.

I'll work on these at light weights as my back recovers. I believe flexibility is my biggest issue. Until I fix that, it 's going to be hard to perform these w/correct form.

Thanks again for the help!

[bobu]

Hey Barry, your back looks pretty neutral to me but what I do see that's different from what I do is that your knees are way forward of perpendicular at the bottom both at beginning and end.Whether or not that's affecting your back I don't know. When I set up I stand over the bar, reach down and get my grip with my legs straight then with a big chest I sit way back and down keeping my back neutral, my shoulders over the bar and my chins perpendicular with the floor then stand up first with legs then thrust with glutes as I pass knee level. I reverse it going down concentrating on keeping my knees perpendicular and out of the way of the bar. Works for me.

[LudwigVan]

It seems like you might need to adjust your idea of what these exercises are supposed to look like, because I think your self-analysis is off the mark.

Two things I noticed immediately upon viewing these. Back is rounded and my chest is not up.

I don't see that at all. The problem is with your setup -- your back is too vertical and hips too low, so your shoulderblades are not over the bar.

My hips rise faster than back and I get a little bit of GM.

Definitely not. You're leading with your chest and have no hip drive. There's also a tendency to pause at the bottom, and I can't tell if your knees are coming in or not. Shove your knees out and rebound immediately out of the bottom with your hips.

[Barry101]

It seems like you might need to adjust your idea of what these exercises are supposed to look like, because I think your self-analysis is off the mark.

I told you I was "new" at this! Point well taken, thanks for the feedback! So, if I start my hips higher during my setup, most of the rest should fix itself? Or is there something else?

Hip drive, not sure how to fix that, I've watched the Ripptoe video 100 times. Obviously still having trouble. Then there's the rebound off the bottom. Did not think I was supposed to do that either(thus the pause).

@Bobu, Thanks! Looks like I have alot of adjustments to make note of! Feel like I am starting completely over.

[muddy]

I agree with your assessment about rounded back on the DL -- there clearly seems to be some butt wink going on, if you watch the decent on the last few reps. Hence the hips are pulling the lower back out of a neutral curve. That really needs to be fixed. I would agree that playing around with hips higher on the setup will help with that.

You don't have problems keeping a "proud chest" in the sense of chest open, but you do have a slight problem with your back angle closing, relative to the floor, at the start of the lift. This means your knees straighten out a little too soon, and it's a little more of a SLDL than it should be. Combined with the butt wink above, and it is a recipe for some back pain.

I do think setting your hips higher and paying attention to hip-spine neutrality will go a long ways. That's really all I would focus on to start with, and perhaps post another video if you want. I bet the SLDL tendency developed because of your low hip position, but who knows.

[Barry101]

Thanks Muddy!

The not wanting to be to horizontal (as far as the back angle goes) comes from a mental fear of injuring my back. I've had bouts of back injuries (chiro visits) in the past. I am beginning to understand that my hips being too low and my back angle being to straight are really working against me.

Flexibility, amd a new approach and some videos so I can look at what I am doing (not doing) correctly. Thanks to all for being so helpful!