Squat form check

[Eclipse]

Me doing my max ever, 87,5kg. I've posted this weight because I never filmed my max for some reason. Only like my warm ups just before. If something will show my weaknesses it's when I'm doing the heaviest I've done. So...well here it is. I think that I lean forward a bit from time to time and my knees might travel forward on some reps, am I right? Is it a ok form or just bad?

[cangler]

I'm far from an expert, and actually plan on posting form check videos soon enough... but with your max video it seems you're 'finishing' with your torso and not hip drive. According to Rippetoe, it should be all hip drive! Perhaps you should deload if you're having to use your torso.... just a thought, anybody else see this?

[Gal]

Me doing my max ever, 87,5kg. I've posted this weight because I never filmed my max for some reason. Only like my warm ups just before. If something will show my weaknesses it's when I'm doing the heaviest I've done. So...well here it is. I think that I lean forward a bit from time to time and my knees might travel forward on some reps, am I right? Is it a ok form or just bad?

Couple of things:
1. As above, you are finishing the movement with your chest and not with your hips. Check Mark Rippetoe video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yha2XAc2 ... r_embedded
2. You don't use your posterior chain correctly, and the result is that your knees getting forward at the bottom. Take your kness forward on the start of the movement, and than try to sit back.

[Eclipse]

Thanks to the both of you. I've looked at the hip drive video and seen where I'm going wrong. Before I got more hip drive then I do now, why I do not know:P I'll fix that. In the the words of Mark Rippetoe "Drive your ass up!"

I don't quite understand that with the posterior chain. I know it's bad for my knees to go out, that I saw myself. So I push my knees out more than before. But know I should also bring them forward at the beginning? How would I do that? It can be because I'm tired, it can also be because I'm a bit stupid:P But can you explain it some more or do you have a video? Maybe it becomes more clear later today when I'm not so tired, just woke up:P

[Gal]

I don't quite understand that with the posterior chain. I know it's bad for my knees to go out, that I saw myself. So I push my knees out more than before. But know I should also bring them forward at the beginning? How would I do that? It can be because I'm tired, it can also be because I'm a bit stupid:P But can you explain it some more or do you have a video? Maybe it becomes more clear later today when I'm not so tired, just woke up:P

Look at your video: You can see clearly that your knees going forward at the bottom. This is bad because you loose all your tension at your posterior chain, wich is bad for low bar squatting. Try to realease your kness at the begining of the squat, just let them go forward, and then, sit back on your heels and push your kness out.

[HarrisonSL]

your back should make a constant angle with the floor. Dont fold over like a toastie maker as you go back up. Drive the shoulders up at the same time and speed as the hips. This will give you the hip drive.

[Eclipse]

Ok, I will work with all of this. Today I will lower the weight down so that I can work on the form. If I just can find my camera (it appears like it's gone:P) I will make a new video today. I don't think that it will be perfect just yet, but some improvements may come. Or I just fuck it up because of "all" the new stuff I will think about:P Well well, the hip drive will come sooner or later. Thanks again guys.

[Eclipse]

I tried to get in the hip drive today. It feel strange and I don't believe that the difference from my last video is much. But I hint a little bit. I don't know why it's so hard. That Rippetoe video is great, I get what he's looking for, but it feels like my body and mind don't do the same thing:P Anyway, today, I got "pain" in my lower back, it felt like I really had done a hard workout. Is this because of any significant change you can spot in the video? Should I feel it so much when I'm trying to change so that I use hip drive? I mean, today I had 75kg and before I had 87,5 (was going to try 90 today) and I had never felt that way before. Maybe it was just a bad day. As I said before, I don't see a lot of change, it won't happen over night, but can such a small change create such difference in the way that I feel it?

This is todays video. I focused on hip drive, although it in my mind was a failed attempt. The other stuff I will focus on later when hip drive is ok. That's because it's hard to think about so much things all at once, it would more harm than good in my case.

[luco]

Hi Eclipse,
You're doing a bit of a goodmorning on the way up. Keep your chest up and focus on keeping your back tight (shoulderblades together) and pushing your abdomen out throughout the lift (not just flex your abs). Also, don't get up on your toes to rack the weight. Put the pins one lower so you can dip under the bar. It should be about mid-sternum. Your hipdrive and depth look pretty good though. You're on the right path!

[Eclipse]

Thanks for your response! I know that racking the bar like I did in the video isn't good. Usually I have a guy that helps me with one side of the bar so I don't have to do it like that. I also know that it would be best if I could do it on my own, but in the way that power rack is made, it's very uncomfortable to lower the pins one step, I've tried it. I will try it again for a period of time, maybe it's a thing to get used too.

Okey, chest up got it. I already know that, I guess I'm more sloppy than I think:P That's a thing I need to work on. Keeping my back tight I think I do pretty good, granted sometimes I don't do it so well. That will be on my mind next time too.

So my depth and hip drive seems to be moving forward. That makes me happy, I was so mad today. I tell you, I don't like it when I don't understand things, I got to know why certain things act a certain way, why some things are better than others to eat etc etc. That's why I really hated it when I have seen the correct way, but couldn't do it myself. Maybe I'm just a bit to hard on myself, maybe I've gone a bit forward. I know good form just don't come over night, at least not for me. But when people say that "hey you've improved a little bit at least" that's get me pumped up to be even better the next time. Next training day is Tuesday, so around that time a new clip should be up.

[HarrisonSL]

your back should make a constant angle with the floor. Dont fold over like a toastie maker as you go back up. Drive the shoulders up at the same time and speed as the hips. This will give you the hip drive.

Your posterior chain must learn to keep solid and transmit force from you legs to your torso to your shoulders

*Lower the weight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYojAPYILEo
Squat like this

*add more weight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJa_sJYQSYM
Squat like this

But seriously Correct This Issue First. i used to do this on the heavier reps, if you dont stop doing this now youll start stalling the weight pretty soon and increase the risk of injury. your also working the posterior chain in a different way so its not a squat anymore.
Once you learn to just maintain that solid bottom position and just lift back up you can grind through much heavier weights alot more comfortably.

And YOU WILL NOT LEARN TO HIP DRIVE THE WAY YOU ARE TRYING TO

the whole point is to push the hips up, and the hips push your solid back and torso (in a rigid position) up as well. Not to lift the hips then lift the back.
If you cant make the the hips DRIVE the rigid torso UPWARDS then this is simply not hip drive.

Your hip drive is not moving forward. If you want to learn it post a video of you doing the hip drive with empty bar and going up in increments of 10kg up to your working weight. And we can see where you start to go wrong and "cheat" the weight up

Your depth is certainly getting better though.

Keeping my back tight I think I do pretty good, granted sometimes I don't do it so well.

That keeping your back tight is hypertrophy and i dont think you can do it hard enough. the harder you squeeze = more strength.

Try and imagine that the bar is trying to make your back change from this
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/start ... cement.jpg
And what makes your back strong is keeping it in that position. the only time the back angle (Q) should change is when you start to straighten out to full extension at the top.

Since you seem eager to learn i made this to help you understand what i mean by back angle
(which in my haste to embed i made a bit too small)

And a stick man evolution of squat


And detailing hip drive. Section A is where your hips drive the squat upwards


Instead of trying to correct your form on your PR weight. Film your warmup, trying to squat as i have shown here. I am fully confident that after seeing these pictures and lowering the weight and focusing on your back not moving only being pushed up by your hips (this is what everyone means when they say chest up as it stops you from doing the folding thing) the concept of hip drive will click in your head, and you will understand how to drive your hips up. its misleading because in reality your hips dont do that much obviously your legs are pushing your hips but you should start to feel your hip flexors tensing as you extend past parallel (IE section A in the diagram) pulling your hips forward and your back up.

Do you see how in the toastie maker method the hip drive is totally inhibitied? (the hip flexors do not get an oppurtunity to flex at any point through the folding motion [except maybe the end])

Anyway if I see videos of you with lighter weights working on what ive told you, ill happily continue to help.

PS
And out of interest can you deadlift more than you can squat? because when i picked up this bad habit I found it much easier to deadlift, and as you can guess this motion is much more like a deadlift than a squat.
Also sorry if you feel like ive come down hard on you but all these people saying 'try this' are being nice and saying it as though you are ironing out the kinks in your form. You need to get the fundamentals down. And from what you said about wanting to understand things i think youll get them easily. in fact it should make alot more sense to you after this post if it doesnt and you want more explanation just msg me

[HarrisonSL]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_flexors

in case you want to clarify what they are

[luco]

Seems like a very confusing post Harrison. You mention several times that the back angle shouldn't change throughout the lift except for the top of the movement. As you've drawn with the stick figures: This is impossible. If the hip angle changes, the back angle has to change too to prevent a goodmorning or simply falling over.
Thing about not learning how to use hipdrive this way: Watch rippetoe's video below on instructing hipdrive. This is how he teaches it.



This kid is doing a terrible goodmorning, but it's still hipdrive since he drives from his hips. Rest of form is correctable later.

If you cant make the the hips DRIVE the rigid torso UPWARDS then this is simply not hip drive.

Not true. It just won't be a good squat, but it will be hipdrive.

[Eclipse]

Instead of trying to correct your form on your PR weight.

I'm not going at my max. I've lowered the weight with 15 kg, I can certainly lower it even more, that's not a problem.

Both of you tell me different things it seems. I don't know who to listen to. Both tell me that my depth is better, so that's good. But then one tell me that my hip drive is getting better and one tells me it's not. I realize that it's a goodmorning going on and that I will take care of. I'm more confused now than before.

HarrisonSL, I know that your trying to help, and I thank you for that. But that stick figure thing, if I understand it right my back should just be "bent" forward all the time? Some forward lean? Ain't that Rippetoe a good video to learn from?

So, I should have some lean forward to get more stable? I got that from the link you showed, the one to the far right was low-bar right? He had a forward lean to stabilize the movement. Anyway I will try to film once again next time, this time all my sets.

[Gal]

I tried to get in the hip drive today. It feel strange and I don't believe that the difference from my last video is much. But I hint a little bit. I don't know why it's so hard. That Rippetoe video is great, I get what he's looking for, but it feels like my body and mind don't do the same thing:P Anyway, today, I got "pain" in my lower back, it felt like I really had done a hard workout. Is this because of any significant change you can spot in the video? Should I feel it so much when I'm trying to change so that I use hip drive? I mean, today I had 75kg and before I had 87,5 (was going to try 90 today) and I had never felt that way before. Maybe it was just a bad day. As I said before, I don't see a lot of change, it won't happen over night, but can such a small change create such difference in the way that I feel it?

This is todays video. I focused on hip drive, although it in my mind was a failed attempt. The other stuff I will focus on later when hip drive is ok. That's because it's hard to think about so much things all at once, it would more harm than good in my case.

Your kness still going forward, just let your knees to go forward at the begining, and then sit back.