Squat form check

[HarrisonSL]

I had a big post but i thought responding to luco's post was actually just diverging from the thread.

HarrisonSL, I know that your trying to help, and I thank you for that. But that stick figure thing, if I understand it right my back should just be "bent" forward all the time?

Yes. Try and straighten your body out to fully perpendicular to the floor next time you have a bar on your back. The weight will go behind your heels, outside of your centre of mass and you will fall over backwards. But you are already doing this and it is not something you need to work. Your problem is too much forward lean when you drive the hips up. This is preventing you from using that hip drive as the force is not transmitting to the bar. Which leads to:

Ain't that Rippetoe a good video to learn from?

Yes its great to learn the concept of hip drive, however, it is not great to watch it and take everything he says on board as some things are specific to his trainee in that video, and he lifts his chest too much. You dont do it enough. If you follow the guidelines i laid out for you it will correct your back position and boom your hip drive will be there. So yes you have learnt how to hip drive, but your not using it properly. (this is what luco was getting at) And in my opinion you haven't learnt something if you haven't learnt how to implement it. Basically you have the concept in the bag now you need to figure out how to incorporate it.

So, I should have some lean forward to get more stable? I got that from the link you showed, the one to the far right was low-bar right? He had a forward lean to stabilize the movement. Anyway I will try to film once again next time, this time all my sets.

No you have enough already. You are stable at the top. But again you have nailed the concept, with lower bar - more forward lean.

Your problem is that once you start driving the hips up your back does not go up. You need your back above your hips and rigid for the hip drive to work. You need to learn to push the bar with your hips, not just the hips. That is what my post was aimed at. I am confident that if you just try what I say your form will be much better then we can move onto correcting lesser faults, like knees moving forward when your coming up etc these are simple to correct. Your bending over is a much more pressing issue.
If you try and squat like the stick man then hip drive will come easily. Dont try and run before you can walk i suppose. Get good form then focus on hip drive.

OFF TOPIC:
Luco, watch dabbaya squatting. Tell me his back angle changes more than 5-10 degrees at the bottom of the squat to just above parallel. It doesnt. Not for any good squat form. Seeing that really solid position is commonplace amongst good lifters. I really think you have done more to subvert my efforts to help eclipse and highlight anything not 100% correct than you have to help him learn correct form.

Not true. It just won't be a good squat, but it will be hipdrive.

... So youd rather he squatted with bad form and poorly implemented hip drive than squat with good form and then learn how to add hip drive.

You mention several times that the back angle shouldn't change throughout the lift except for the top of the movement. As you've drawn with the stick figures: This is impossible.

Well its funny how i can do it, and so can most competent lifters. There will be a small amount of compensation yes but look at what we are trying to correct in eclipse's form. are your comments helpful? come on man.
watch the videos in this http://stronglifts.com/how-to-squat-wit ... -problems/
maybe you should improve your form if you dont maintain that good strong back position (that Rippetoe HAMMERS into his lifters, usually first talks about this position with the olympic style deadlift).

Its obviously a lot harder to explain yourself over the internet than in person or by video but im doing my best. I honestly i dont think i can explain it any more clearly and concisely than i already have so best of luck man look forward to your next vid.

[luco]

Harrison, them sound like fightin' words.. J/k, but seriously, lighten up.
I'm trying to help Eclipse too, our opinions just vary. Have you got any videos of dabaya squatting like that? I've only seen front squat and olympic squat vids of him. Obviously the straighter back argument makes sense then.

On topic: Eclipse, I don't think more theory is gonna help you much. I think you know what to do, you just need to do it. Deload and perfect your form. Watching videos of people that know how to squat helps alot, just see where your squat differs from theirs. Note the back angle:



Keep us posted with updates on your form!

[Eclipse]

Now I've filmed much more than just one or two sets. I filmed all my warmup, and one of my work weight. I don't know if you can see any improvement. I don't know, I feel blind for my own form. It feels a bit better, but that can be just me lying to myself I don't think I get those crazy goodmornings all the time anymore. I've also done as you luco suggested and lowered the pins, now I can unrack and rack it myself Even though it's not super comfy to unrack it, it feels more safe knowing that I now can rack it without any problems. Do you see any difference at all? I've all the tips you've given me, I'm gonna do it again, and really trying my best to get this down. Well here it goes.

40kg


65kg


70 something:P


80kg (work weight)


Thanks once again for your help.

[luco]

Same problem on all lifts: Knees sliding forward. You're doing less of a goodmorning, but you have to concentrate on keeping your knees in one place after the first 1/3 of the lift. Shove them out, don't let them travel forward. Don't bother with all these weights until you have the form spot on with just the bar. Hang in there, man, you'll get there eventually.

[Eclipse]

The knees I know I got to fix. The thing was that I was trying to get the hip drive in and the good mornings out, not because I don't know that I have other stuff to work on, but because it's easier to take it bit by bit instead of taking it all at one time. That would be at least for me, only more confusing when you add many new things to think about at one time. But I get what you mean and the knees are next in line to be fixed. Now that someone else also sees that my goodmorning problem is better then I'll start to focus more on the other stuff. Videos of that will come some time next week I guess.

[luco]

Thing about trying to add one thing at a time: If your knees travel forward, your hamstrings slack, taking away from your hipdrive. If your knees slide forward, your back angle changes to hold the bar above the middle of your foot. Meaning you won't get the feeling for hipdrive or proper backposition because another part of your squat is lacking (knees).
My advice is, do endless sets with just the bar until you get it just right. Have your gymbuddy tell you when your knees are sliding forward/you're doing a goodmorning/you're not breaking parallel/etc., until you think everything is as close to perfect as it's gonna be. Tape a couple sets with just the bar and post 'em for critique, THEN start adding weight again (you'll probably be up to your old record pretty quickly since your technique improved).
This'll be so much easier than trying to focus on technique while the weight is still pretty challenging. Now your body feels like it has to move the weight up somehow since you don't wanna get stuck and you'll drop back in your old habits very easily.

[Eclipse]

Ok. Well all that makes sense. I will lower the weight. I will shove my knees out and keep doing what I already was doing. As it seems to work, at least at getting the goodmorning "away". So, lower the weight, think of the stuff you guys said and then I will post some videos later this week. Around this time, that way I got sometime to work at it.

[Eclipse]

Hello guys, the videos I was meaning to take of myself will come up "soon". I got sick just after I wrote that last message, then I haven't had a camera to film with:/ Now that I got my camera back, just to f**k with me, I have gotten sick again! Hopefully, it's just a pass over thing and I can train on Sunday as planed, then I will have my camera and make some videos. It has not been such a long time between the times I've gotten sick, so I haven't gotten super much practice time at the things you wrote down. I'm pushing out my knees way more than before, depth is deeper (I think), the goodmorning is almost gone to I think. It's hard to tell all by myself. I've tried to explain to my friend what's wrong and how you guys said it should be. What I was doing wrong and what my goal was. But he didn't feel like he really understood and therefore didn't want to say anything about my form when he's sure.

Anyway, as always I appreciate the help I get here and will do my best to better my technique. As the videos goes, they will come up when I'm not sick anymore and can train again. I'm really hoping that it's not the swine flu, it's been getting "worse" where I live, more people are getting it. I'm not afraid of the flu it self, but you can get sick pretty long. So I hope that my headaches and fever will go down enough so I can keep on training and not the starting for a week or more in bed