strength training program

[Krump]

Hello, I have been strength training with barbells for 5-6 months. I don't have a 1.5x squat yet but my workouts really take a toll on me. I am trying to find a program that allows me to recover optimally. My goals are purely to achieve strength. I am thinking two quality days a week is enough for me (three has been overkill usually). I am thinking about something like this.

Work-out A - volume

Squat 4x5
Bench 4x5


Work-out B - intensity

Squat 3x3
Dead lift 1x5 or 2x3 or ramp up to a big single
Pull-up 25 reps

I would probably do complexes or some other HIIT training in between workouts during the week but nothing heavy. I am also thinking about using ascending sets instead of sets across because in my experience they are not so taxing and I can still hit a big last set. I would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks.

[Mouse]

If you are struggling to recover, but not yet at a 1.5xBW squat, it may be 2 other factors affecting you.
Take a good honest look at both your food intake and regular amount of sleep.
It may be you are falling down on either or both of these which is causing the recovery issue.

[holvoetn]

Hi and welcome

Adding to previous comment, what are your stats like ?
BW, height, squat, bench, deadlift, ohp, ... ?

[Krump]

Mouse and H,

Thank you for your responses. Yes Mouse, I suspect sleep is a factor that definitely hinders my recovery. I am trying to do the best I can but is sometimes out of my control, I often have instances or even stretches that I have to work late into the night. Ideally I would get more but that is not always realistic.

I wouldn't mind sticking with a program closer to SL5x5 but my main concerns are that I usually can not squat 25 heavy reps three times per week, at least not consecutively, and squats are my main focus right now. I feel the fatigue accumulating and can even predict the stall the day of the workout. In the past I have taken a week completely off every fourth week and that has really helped rejuvenate me but that seems like a lot of down time (1/4 weeks - 25%). I was thinking two squat sessions per week and one dead lift would be enough without trashing me. I have trouble DLing heavy 3 times every 2 weeks. I could do volume at lighter weight but not 3-5 heavy reps. I feel like I need a week to recover after pulling up to 5 heavy reps.


I also thought the 9 rep squat workout would prevent too much wear while letting me go heavy. I was also thinking about using ascending sets. I have used them and liked them in the past. On SL5x5 I usually fail the first few times when I progress to heavier sets but I like ascending sets because I can increment the jumps in weight slowly over sets instead of doing all 25 reps at a higher weight. I wouldn't be against doing a light third squat session during the week like Madcow has as long as it is low intensity but 3 heavy 25 rep workouts is usually rough and so much stalling, going down, working up, and stalling again without gaining much over the course of weeks.


My stats: 6 foot 165 pounds, squat 190x5, bench 165x1, dl 270x1, press 90x5 or 100x1. (my 5 rep squat and 5 rep press have increased only 5 pounds since August 14th following SL5x5).

Thanks for your input guys, I won't do any drastic changes until I get some more input and really mull over it for a while.

[guru]

At 6' & 165 lbs, you need to gain weight (at least another 20 lbs) if you want to progress in your lifting. Log your diet into fitday & see how many calories you're consuming - I'm suspecting you'll find that you're on a deficit.

Check your calorific requirements using Cunningham equation & start eating a lot more.

You can even consider GOMAD.

[Krump]

Hey Guru,

Thanks for the suggestion. I do eat a lot and pride myself in the quality of the food I eat. I used fitday for a while (a couple months actually) to gauge where I am at. I typically get in 3200-3400 calories a day and about 200g of protein. Of course when it comes to the components of recovery - food and sleep - more is better no matter how well we think we are doing in these departments.

I know I need to focus more on sleep and could even eat more but do the changes I want to make to SL 5x5 ( 1: dl once a week and 2: reduce volume or intensity of 1 of the 3 squat workouts per week) seem reasonable too? Of course we are eager to adjust the sleep and food variables but what about the program? Isn't that just another variable in the strength equation? Yes, ideally I would sleep 9+ hours and eat 4000+ calories and if I did I would probably feel like superman, but that is far from the norm. When the recovery components lack a bit shouldn't the program be malleable to fit with the deficient recovery components? I don't want to make crazy changes or anything, just those 2 modifications. I will continue to sleep and eat as much as possible but even so I struggle with the frequency of the volume and intensity in the program.

Thank you for your continued input everyone.

[Krump]

I usually don't drink milk but I bought 2 gallons of whole milk today. I will try to drink as much milk in addition to my big meals through-out the day. It will definitely make getting some food in me in the mornings easier.

So how about this: SL 5x5 but dl only once per week and one of the three squat sessions I do 3x5 and a drop set of 10? This way I can keep volume almost the same but have a bit of relief from the constant intensity.

Thoughts?

[MikeD]

The intensity will be the same if you're doing 3x5, just the volume AT that intensity will be lower.

I'm at school full time and working about 30 hours per week, and I'm buying my own food, so my recovery is a bit compromised as well.

Here's what I'm doing:

Monday
Squat
3x5
Bench or Press
3x5
Reverse hypers
Chin/pull ups

Wednesday
Squat
Work up to medium set of 5 (around 75-80% of monday)
Bench or Press
3x5
Power Cleans or DL's
5x3
Split squats (depending on time)
3 sets of 8
Chins/pull ups

Friday
Squat
3x5 (5 lbs more than monday's)
Bench or Press
3x5
Good mornings
Work up to set of 10
Chins/pull ups


To summarize, Monday and Friday proceed as normal, with Wednesday being an active recovery reserved for deadlifts or cleans. Been working out grand so far.

[Krump]

Hey MikeD,

Thanks for the input. Yeah, I definitely want to dl once per week, especially if going heavy. I have been thinking about a 3x5 rep structure and considering it's merits. I definitely think I will adopt it at some point but for now I am just thinking about using it to reduce volume at that intensity as a "Wednesday" workout. I forgot to mention that the 3x5 I was thinking about would also be around 80-85% of my normal sets. The drop set would probably be around 65% and that would just help reinforce form, strength stamina, grease the groove, and just be fun.

I'm pretty sure I want to do these minor modifications. I'm still receptive to suggestions.

[Krump]

This is the modification to SL 5x5 I am considering. The changes are a reduced intensity squat day on W and only DL once per week.

Monday

Squat 5x5
Press/Bench 5x5
Pull-ups & chins and inv rows (25+rows) circuit w back ext and abs


Wednesday

Squat 3x5 @ ~85%, 1x10 @ <85%
Press/Bench 5x5
Pull-ups & chins and inv rows (25+rows) circuit w back ext and abs


Friday

Squat 5x5
Press/Bench 5x5
Dead lift 1x5 or 2x3 or ramping up to big single
Pull-ups, chins, and inv rows (25+ rows)

[ezequiel]

Instead of squatting with a 85% (of monday's workout?) you could do front squats, which lets you lift less weight, and is easier on your back and your legs on wedsneday (and you could consider deadlifting on this day also, I know you want to rest on wd to DL on friday, bue hey it's just a suggestion ).

[Krump]

Hey ezequiel,

The front squats idea is a really good suggestion. I am definitely open to that idea. The whole point of Wednesday is to lighten things up a bit so M and W can be full intensity. The more upright posture of FS would do this naturally.

[Loco34]

Im completing my 2nd tour ADSL5X5 but wondering if should come off to do hit training. I see strength gains but its not trasnlating to great phsyique gains. I'm getting bigger but losing muscle symmetry...maybe i'm just being a bitch!

cureent log. nov.22 2009




squat-336lbs X3
DL-287lbs X3
MP-135lbs X3
PC-185lbs X3
BP-225lbs X3
TGU-65LBS X6
WD-85lbs X3
WPU-60LBS X3

I'M 5"-5' FT WEIGHT 160lbs train 3 days a week MWF...Iwanna look as strong a i'am...any advice

thanks,
Loco34

[MikeD]

Losing muscle symmetry? Meaning opposing muscles aren't balanced, or a left/right imbalance?

[santisua]

Im completing my 2nd tour ADSL5X5 but wondering if should come off to do hit training. I see strength gains but its not trasnlating to great phsyique gains. I'm getting bigger but losing muscle symmetry...maybe i'm just being a bitch!

cureent log. nov.22 2009




squat-336lbs X3
DL-287lbs X3
MP-135lbs X3
PC-185lbs X3
BP-225lbs X3
TGU-65LBS X6
WD-85lbs X3
WPU-60LBS X3

I'M 5"-5' FT WEIGHT 160lbs train 3 days a week MWF...Iwanna look as strong a i'am...any advice

thanks,
Loco34

I think he means muscle lines? If so, maybe just lose the body fat? You have some great lifts there man.