The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

[Mehdi]

I mean women never make the first move. They are the prey, not the hunters. Willing prey; but, prey nonetheless. If you just sit around and wait for women to come to you you are going to be waiting a very long time.

Not pursuing doesn't mean not approaching. I agree you should approach. Although I have girls talk to me first sometimes (it's not that common I admit, but it happens, girls usually make intentions clear by throwing looks).

Maybe they don't make the first move with you, because you don't give them the chance to make the first move (no offence, really). Most girls I've been with made the first move. And girls with very different kind of personalities.

[Playboy]

@Playboy
http://endpua.com/ Thoughts?

@Tenkev
What do you mean with "women never pursue men"?

He has a lot of good points. However a lot of instructors aim to distance themselves from any kind of system, like the following ESPECIALLY:

http://www.authenticmanprogram.com/

A lot of their program is based around handling negative emotions and figuring out what you want for yourself. Probably one of (if not the) best pickup programs out there(even though it never talks about actual pickup).

http://www.lifelovepassion.com/
also a very natural approach.

The guy who created that site hasn't seen much of the gurus outside of the most popular ones. The AMP guys for instance, a lot of their coaches are married fathers, or women. I agree that RSD is pretty much faking natural pickup, but still the blueprint decoded taught me a shitload of things about for example how to open my mind to new things.

Even though dealing with your own emotions is FUNDAMENTAL, the owner of the site forgets that things like cocky+funny, push+pull etc STILL WORK LIKE A CHARM. If you start looking at pickup techniques with a more fluid perspective you'll get much more out of them. For example the mystery method can be simply explained as you have to meed the woman first, then you have to make her interested (attracted) by showing your best sides, then you need to start getting to know her and get rapport, then you can make a move. Also touch her all the time so the move isn't awkward or out of nowhere. Just saying that to someone can help them without turning them into robots.

I believe that attraction and everything that's important with women has three sides,all working in a synergic effect:

1. Deep inner personality
2. Outer Personality
3. Physical traits

Each of theese can get women by themselves, but the best effect is had from all of them. Most PUGs only focus on the outer personality, as in the system, tone of voice, body language, everything that you "Do". That's the problem the creator of the site has with PU in general. If he had however(I don't really see him solving anything in the site either, just defining his own problems and assuming other people have them) solved all his personality issues and them started approaching women, I'd bet all my life savings he would still do stuff like push-pull and cocky funny. Why? BECAUSE IT WORKS! WOMEN LIKE IT! Some things need to be structured. You can't *always* just do what feels right, otherwise you'll go around making the same mistakes again, and again, and again and again because you're very emotionally stable and confident, but still stubborn as a rock! Physical traits is also overlooked largely in the PU community by mainstream PUGs like Tyler Durden. Being fit, well groomed and dressing well (Brad P's fashion bible is awesome) takes a huge amount of trouble out of your game and will reinforce your confidence a lot more then your outer personality will.

Simply because YOU ARE fit and groomed when you become it. You don't "do" fit. People will react positively pretty much no matter how you do, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year! This is how you got bad emotional beliefs! Your hormones will also do their part.

Summary:

I agree to some extent. You should never let your social life be controlled by a set of social-dynamic rules. But there's something to learn everywhere, attraction is more then just core confidence and lack of bottled-up emotions.

[Rara]

It all comes down to your level of ambition and whether you're happy with your current personality or not. If you want beatiful , intelligent women you're going to have to work on being more attractive, there's no question about that...Pick-up material isn't for guys who just "wants to find someone". It's for guys who want to be able to select women as they please and get the best of the best.

Actually, that is what I am questioning. The women I've been with are 8s, 9s, and 10s in my eyes. I wouldn't have wasted my time if I didn't think they were. To call them anything but or to suggest I just "settled" is insulting to me and them. Not that I'm taking it personally, just pointing out fallacies in your thinking.

That quote above is exactly what I mean when I say it's media programmed brainwashing.

I've dated women who look better than Jessica Alba in my eyes. Why do I say that? Because I don't think Jessica Alba is all that hot. She is not my type. Her head is too big for her body and she's way too skinny. The rest is photoshop, lights, and surgery. The idea that all guys should lust after her and do is entirely made up by various social constructs. But on an individual level, these ideas just don't hold up. Personality and looks have very little to do with each other or appeal to another person. And to elevate her to some goddess status is putting her on a pedestal she doesn't belong on.

"Bad" "unattractive" they all mean the same thing, and they all vary from person to person. What a shy nerd considers a desirable personality is going to be very different than what a Type A CEO does. The same with looks. Ask ten men what's the number one physical characteristic they look for on a woman. Ask them what type of porn they're into. You'll get different answers.

Does that mean I have a thing for fatties? No. But what the media considers a 10 and what I do are very different. In my eyes, I've dated some of the world's most beautiful women just by being comfortable with who I am and by being direct about what I wanted. I'd share pictures but would consider that a violation of their privacy and meaningless because what I consider hot is different from others consider hot.

If you feel the need for game, great. I'm not religious, but I do see people who are helped by religion and think "whatever they need to be good people..." Similarly, I don't run game, but there are people who feel that their personalities aren't enough. I feel sad for them, but as long as they get what they want, they should use whatever works for them.

I do however maintain that it is possible to form relationships of varying length with desirable women without "running game" and often running game can prevent one from achieving one's goal sooner just by being honest with others and comfortable with oneself and have experienced it first hand by accepting that even the "best" will experience rejection.

"Game" is an idea developed to avoid the idea of rejection and perpetuate the idea that women are incapable of thinking or acting for themselves and need to be manipulated by various acts in order to spread their legs. But rejection happens. Failure happens. And women are people too. That's life. It keeps going forward.

[atypical1]

I can't believe that there's even such a thing as "pick up guru's" and that people pay them to get advice with women. I agree with Rara in that it's primarily media hype. Think about the days before the internet and before we had all kinds of books on the subject. Somehow men and women still managed to meet and date. Pick up guru's are like those ads we see in muscle magazines saying that this certain brand of whey protein will get you ripped. Yes, the author might use some of the techniques that he mentions but those aren't really what he can contribute his "success" to just like it's not that whey protein that's making that guy ripped.

To me the biggest mistakes that people make with each other is assuming that you need some game or some plan in order to meet someone. The world is truly random and maybe you'll meet someone while walking your dog. Maybe you'll meet someone while at the library. Who knows? But treating it like a game will certainly only make you upset because then it comes down to "winners" and "losers" and that just doesn't have context when it comes to relationships.

Look, just find happiness within and the rest will work itself out.

james

[Playboy]

It all comes down to your level of ambition and whether you're happy with your current personality or not. If you want beatiful , intelligent women you're going to have to work on being more attractive, there's no question about that...Pick-up material isn't for guys who just "wants to find someone". It's for guys who want to be able to select women as they please and get the best of the best.

Actually, that is what I am questioning. The women I've been with are 8s, 9s, and 10s in my eyes. I wouldn't have wasted my time if I didn't think they were. To call them anything but or to suggest I just "settled" is insulting to me and them. Not that I'm taking it personally, just pointing out fallacies in your thinking.

That quote above is exactly what I mean when I say it's media programmed brainwashing.

I've dated women who look better than Jessica Alba in my eyes. Why do I say that? Because I don't think Jessica Alba is all that hot. She is not my type. Her head is too big for her body and she's way too skinny. The rest is photoshop, lights, and surgery. The idea that all guys should lust after her and do is entirely made up by various social constructs. But on an individual level, these ideas just don't hold up. Personality and looks have very little to do with each other or appeal to another person. And to elevate her to some goddess status is putting her on a pedestal she doesn't belong on.

"Bad" "unattractive" they all mean the same thing, and they all vary from person to person. What a shy nerd considers a desirable personality is going to be very different than what a Type A CEO does. The same with looks. Ask ten men what's the number one physical characteristic they look for on a woman. Ask them what type of porn they're into. You'll get different answers.

Does that mean I have a thing for fatties? No. But what the media considers a 10 and what I do are very different. In my eyes, I've dated some of the world's most beautiful women just by being comfortable with who I am and by being direct about what I wanted. I'd share pictures but would consider that a violation of their privacy and meaningless because what I consider hot is different from others consider hot.

If you feel the need for game, great. I'm not religious, but I do see people who are helped by religion and think "whatever they need to be good people..." Similarly, I don't run game, but there are people who feel that their personalities aren't enough. I feel sad for them, but as long as they get what they want, they should use whatever works for them.

I do however maintain that it is possible to form relationships of varying length with desirable women without "running game" and often running game can prevent one from achieving one's goal sooner just by being honest with others and comfortable with oneself and have experienced it first hand by accepting that even the "best" will experience rejection.

"Game" is an idea developed to avoid the idea of rejection and perpetuate the idea that women are incapable of thinking or acting for themselves and need to be manipulated by various acts in order to spread their legs. But rejection happens. Failure happens. And women are people too. That's life. It keeps going forward.

So basically what you're saying is that you've been with women YOU consider 8s,9s,10s etc but wouldn't be so by other people? Congratulations then. You can get the women you want. The other huge majority of the world who has a bit more of a general taste with women unfortunately can't sleep with women they consider hotter then Jessica Alba. Also, if your girls aren't what guys usually consider to be 8s, 9s and 10s then game doesn't nearly apply as much to them since they don't have as high status. (Deductive thinking here though and a lot of assuming so take it with a grain of salt). Yes you can form relationships with women without using game, but most guys can't use their natural personality to get the girls THEY consider 8s, 9s, and 10s. Thus game is a good thing.

[Playboy]

I can't believe that there's even such a thing as "pick up guru's" and that people pay them to get advice with women. I agree with Rara in that it's primarily media hype. Think about the days before the internet and before we had all kinds of books on the subject. Somehow men and women still managed to meet and date. Pick up guru's are like those ads we see in muscle magazines saying that this certain brand of whey protein will get you ripped. Yes, the author might use some of the techniques that he mentions but those aren't really what he can contribute his "success" to just like it's not that whey protein that's making that guy ripped.

To me the biggest mistakes that people make with each other is assuming that you need some game or some plan in order to meet someone. The world is truly random and maybe you'll meet someone while walking your dog. Maybe you'll meet someone while at the library. Who knows? But treating it like a game will certainly only make you upset because then it comes down to "winners" and "losers" and that just doesn't have context when it comes to relationships.

Look, just find happiness within and the rest will work itself out.

james

People always like to act like they know something about anything. Imagine this: You're over 20 years old. You're a virgin. Girls are repulsed by you, you can't hold a conversation with one for any amount of time. Do you really think advice like yours up there will help? "Just wait and it'll happen"?. Logical thinking tells you that when you're not getting results YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG. PUGs are usually people who have gone from zero to hero with women. They refer to people who have always been successfull as naturals, and claim just like you did there that naturals cannot teach what they do because they don't know it.

Advice like yours up there going around the world is IMO one of the reasons why you have guys shooting up gyms because they can't get laid. Think about it, if it was as easy as you said, no one would have problems. No one. "Oh, I need to walk my dog or go to the library! Why didn't I think of that before?"

[tenkev]

I agree with Playboy.

Also, how can anyone in their right mind not think Jessica Alba is hot?

[atypical1]

People always like to act like they know something about anything. Imagine this: You're over 20 years old. You're a virgin. Girls are repulsed by you, you can't hold a conversation with one for any amount of time. Do you really think advice like yours up there will help? "Just wait and it'll happen"?. Logical thinking tells you that when you're not getting results YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG. PUGs are usually people who have gone from zero to hero with women. They refer to people who have always been successfull as naturals, and claim just like you did there that naturals cannot teach what they do because they don't know it.

Advice like yours up there going around the world is IMO one of the reasons why you have guys shooting up gyms because they can't get laid. Think about it, if it was as easy as you said, no one would have problems. No one. "Oh, I need to walk my dog or go to the library! Why didn't I think of that before?"

If someone is emotional unstable to the point of shooting up gyms, schools, etc then no amount of success with women is going to help them. That goes far beyond simply being an awkward teen and into something much, much deeper.

PUG's are predators who give false hope to people who aren't maybe as socially adept as they might be. Two questions for you to think about. The first revolves around how any of us really know that these guys are having sucess with women. Where's the tangible proof? Anyone can hire some models to hang around them for a photo shoot. Anyone can tell a good story which is exactly what these guys are doing. The second question revolves around their content. How much more are you going to learn from them than you would from reading something like "How to Win Friends and Influence People"?

james

[pagangoddess]

It's for guys who want to be able to select women as they please and get the best of the best.

Advice like yours up there going around the world is IMO one of the reasons why you have guys shooting up gyms because they can't get laid.

So what is your motivation playboy? Are women only as good as what you can get from them?

I don't think it's a question of what techniques or other methods to use. It all comes down to your motivation. Why are you using those techniques & methods? That's the determining factor for me.

[Rara]

I was going to write a whole post about how My 10 could be someone elses 8 and my 8 could be someone elses 5 or 11. I was also going to write about how the best way to start any relationship was to be honest about who you are that way there was no drama later on and that running game meant you had to keep running game to keep her because she fell for a lie and now your relationship is at her mercy.

But then I found these which describes my experience perfectly. And if you think you need game to get these girls...just wow. They're so human and you don't even realize it.

[Rara]

(The girl on the bottom left in the picture above...without makeup - my 10, btw)

It's for guys who want to be able to select women as they please and get the best of the best.

And who is the best for any individual? The one society labels the best but he can't seem to get along with unless he's conciously running game? Or the one he genuinely finds attractive (because his penis gets erect) and gets along with swimmingly just by being himself because they share common interests? The best girl for me is the one that I don't feel like I have to walk on eggshells around or pretend to be someone I'm not. If I feel like I'm walking on eggshells to be with her or have to be any different a person with her than I am with my closest friends, it's a clear sign she's not right for me. Part of selecting the right girl is knowing who is not right. And you do that by testing her ability to get along with the real you not some manufactured cocky-funny routine you learned online.

Advice like yours up there going around the world is IMO one of the reasons why you have guys shooting up gyms because they can't get laid.

Crazy people shoot up places for any crazy reason they can think of. Being bullyied, hating the Amish, not getting laid, seeking 72 virgins, hating abortions, etc. A crazy person will find some fatal outlet for his craziness. Take one excuse away and he'll find another.

[tenkev]

Rara you keep mentioning that your 10 may be someone else 8 and vice versa, etc. Well, maybe that is true for you; but, the vast majority of men have very similar taste in women. We evolved that way and no amount of wishing or hoping is ever going to change the fact that men are attracted to women with low waist to hip ratios, large breasts, symmetrical faces and feminine features.

Maybe Rara has hypnotized himself into thinking ugly women are hot but most people live in the real world where a hot chick is a hot chick and Jessica Alba is way hotter than 99.999% of women in the world.

[Rara]

The Jessica Alba before all the lights, make up, and Photoshop? Or after? You're in lust with a computer generated image of a woman. See the image above.

And most men do not think Jessica Alba is beautiful. Most American men *might*, but what is beautiful varies across cultures. I'm willing to trust my experience and scientific research more than your word:

Sexiness evolves according to what we see over and over. This mechanism, Winkielman noted in a statement, “accounts for cultural differences in beauty — and historical differences in beauty as well — because beauty basically depends on what you’ve been exposed to and what is therefore easy on your mind.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15098830/

And while the waist to hip ratio is fairly consistent, the preference for a thinner look is a recent thing. Hence why none of the Playboy models from the 60s nor Marilyn Monroe would be a sex symbol today. If you consider them and women like them unattractive, well, your loss. I ain't here to convince you about what and who is attractive, just that men (and women) have different tastes about who and what is.

[Rara]

...and because of those differences in taste, the idea of "game" is ridiculous.

[tenkev]

Marilyn Monroe was thin. I can't post any pics because I'm at work but check out some pictures of her in a bathing suit or less.

She would definitely still be a sex symbol today and in any age.

And that link proves nothing. Just useless "social scientists" reciting trite platitudes made to make fat people feel better about their worthless selves.