The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

[atypical1]

Just useless "social scientists" reciting trite platitudes made to make fat people feel better about their worthless selves.

You might want to retract that statement. There are a lot of people out there who don't base their entire sense of self worth on only their outward appearance. Calling someone "worthless" because they are heavy is a pretty ignorant thing to say.

You're wrong about the vast majority of men in the world having the same taste in women. Seriously, you need to look outside your limited world view and take a look at all of the different cultures. China and India have a very high percentage of the population. Here'san interesting link for you regarding Chinese beauty. Now extrapolate that out for India, the African continent, etc and there's plenty of standards out there.

james

[Playboy]

People always like to act like they know something about anything. Imagine this: You're over 20 years old. You're a virgin. Girls are repulsed by you, you can't hold a conversation with one for any amount of time. Do you really think advice like yours up there will help? "Just wait and it'll happen"?. Logical thinking tells you that when you're not getting results YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG. PUGs are usually people who have gone from zero to hero with women. They refer to people who have always been successfull as naturals, and claim just like you did there that naturals cannot teach what they do because they don't know it.

Advice like yours up there going around the world is IMO one of the reasons why you have guys shooting up gyms because they can't get laid. Think about it, if it was as easy as you said, no one would have problems. No one. "Oh, I need to walk my dog or go to the library! Why didn't I think of that before?"

If someone is emotional unstable to the point of shooting up gyms, schools, etc then no amount of success with women is going to help them. That goes far beyond simply being an awkward teen and into something much, much deeper.

PUG's are predators who give false hope to people who aren't maybe as socially adept as they might be. Two questions for you to think about. The first revolves around how any of us really know that these guys are having sucess with women. Where's the tangible proof? Anyone can hire some models to hang around them for a photo shoot. Anyone can tell a good story which is exactly what these guys are doing. The second question revolves around their content. How much more are you going to learn from them than you would from reading something like "How to Win Friends and Influence People"?

james

Here's how to figure it out: Go to a club, try it out. I'm involved in the PU community myself and it's all real. PUGs literally have to fight women OFF them. A book like the one you mentioned will give you skills in winning friends and influencing people. Thus the title is such instead of "How to fuck hot chicks". That's the difference.

Pagangodess:

My motivation is lust for women. To be more specific, it's lust for women that are considered "out of my league".

Rara:

Game isn't about walking on eggshells. The purpose is to make your communication with women smooth, effortless and stilll have it genrate a lot of attraction. If you were to approach the hottest girl you've ever seen, and a PUG was to do the same, you'd be the one observed as walking on eggshells and he'd be described as being himself and being natural. You should do some research before speaking about things, because you obviously have NO idea what PU is all about. People all over the world have been using PU for over a decade to vastly improve their life and actualize their potentials. It's not ridiculous.

[Shoke]

I disagree with "mistake #1"....when I was younger, I used to be very casual towards women and usually acted aloof with girls I was interested in, without actually showing interest.....result? nothing happened. I realized my biggest mistake was actually NOT pursuing. Therfore i started to become a lot more aggressive in terms of making moves on women and making my intentions clear. personally, I've had much much much better success this way......

mehdi you must be a very lucky guy to have girls make the first move on you, maybe it's because you live in Europe lol....

[Rara]

I know the community well. But I don't have to in order to know women.

My communication with women has been a lot smoother since I stopped worrying about to say and just started saying and doing what i was thinking. My worries about what to say and do stemmed from me trying to say and do the right things to "get her". When I realized that there was no "getting" her, just freeing her to express her desire or disinterest in me, I stopped trying to be, say, or do anything and instead started relying on my instincts. Even if it meant appearing nervous. The outsider looking in test is the worst because initiating a relationship with a girl is not about impressing an audience.

Game relies on the belief that a guy has to convince a girl to sleep with him or impress others by being cool and smooth. It doesn't work like that. She may learn things about you that make you more attractive as you get to know each other, but you cannot control her perception of you no matter how hard you try.

I can and have gone into bars in nothing but a sweatshirt and jeans and still slept with women I consider hot. I've also dressed my best and gotten not so much as a phone number. It's not what you do. It's who you are. That's based on your genes and whole life experiences, not some techniques you learn on a website. And she makes her decision based on that fact.

But I am finished with this discussion. I hope your approach finds you happiness.

[pagangoddess]

Pagangodess:

My motivation is lust for women. To be more specific, it's lust for women that are considered "out of my league".

In that response you demonstrated why so many are against pick ups.

[Playboy]

Pagangodess:

My motivation is lust for women. To be more specific, it's lust for women that are considered "out of my league".

In that response you demonstrated why so many are against pick ups.

Yeah. People don't like it when they see others trying to rise above the norm, they don't like seeing you succeed. Especially if a person who essentially sucks with women decides to actualy improve himself. Have you ever been called a health freak because you work out a lot and eat clean? It's just the same thing. People are disgustingly jealous.

I guess that's not the point you're going for though. But should there be any other motivation then lust and love for women to getting better at attracting them? I'm confused, aren't people allowed to want and work for good things?

Also I can't tell by your picture, are you female? Most girls have never had a problem gettting guys to like them, so the entire idea of pick-up just confuses them. To them it's all natural and something that just happens.

That's not how it is for everyone. Most guys can relate to the horror of being unable to attract women. The ones who can't will typically, like the gentleman above, claim that attraction "just happens" and that people should be themselves.

IMO this is just a bunch of people who doesn't want others to maybe get more success with women then they have.

[pagangoddess]

People are disgustingly jealous.

Yes I'm female and jealousy is not my motivation in posting.

I guess that's not the point you're going for though. But should there be any other motivation then lust and love for women to getting better at attracting them? I'm confused, aren't people allowed to want and work for good things?

For good things? That's my point playboy. Women become things to be obtained. They are prizes at the end of your silly game.

My motivation is the experience of human interaction in and of itself. The interaction may turn physical or it may not but I don't go into it with any expectations. Men & women alike are people not objects and should be treated as such. You go into these interactions trying to get something. It's devaluing the other person.

Most girls have never had a problem gettting guys to like them, so the entire idea of pick-up just confuses them. To them it's all natural and something that just happens.

That simply isn't true. Women turn themselves inside out and do horrible things to themselves for a man's approval. Read any women's magazine and you'll see it plain as day. Look at the images of what is considered attractive and the lengths women will go to in order to live up.

IMO this is just a bunch of people who doesn't want others to maybe get more success with women then they have.

I can't speak for anyone else but that is not the impression I get. What I see are people trying to tell you that your methods and motivation are devaluing human relationships because it's all about you getting something.

Correct me if I'm wrong but that is my take on it.

[mjh]

Too right, PG.

People who have a problem with the concept of "picking up" women are not necessarily jealous losers, playboy. Many of them have a distaste for it because it objectifies women, encourages men to think and act like sleazeballs, and asserts that finding a partner is a matter of strategy and 'game', rather than sincerity and integrity.

I fins this whole 'ranking' thing distasteful, as well. How can you ever approach a woman with sincerity and true respect if you have already placed her in some hierarchy of desirability, before you even know her?

[Playboy]

People are disgustingly jealous.

Yes I'm female and jealousy is not my motivation in posting.

I guess that's not the point you're going for though. But should there be any other motivation then lust and love for women to getting better at attracting them? I'm confused, aren't people allowed to want and work for good things?

For good things? That's my point playboy. Women become things to be obtained. They are prizes at the end of your silly game.

My motivation is the experience of human interaction in and of itself. The interaction may turn physical or it may not but I don't go into it with any expectations. Men & women alike are people not objects and should be treated as such. You go into these interactions trying to get something. It's devaluing the other person.

Most girls have never had a problem gettting guys to like them, so the entire idea of pick-up just confuses them. To them it's all natural and something that just happens.

That simply isn't true. Women turn themselves inside out and do horrible things to themselves for a man's approval. Read any women's magazine and you'll see it plain as day. Look at the images of what is considered attractive and the lengths women will go to in order to live up.

IMO this is just a bunch of people who doesn't want others to maybe get more success with women then they have.

I can't speak for anyone else but that is not the impression I get. What I see are people trying to tell you that your methods and motivation are devaluing human relationships because it's all about you getting something.

Correct me if I'm wrong but that is my take on it.

While I do understand your point of view, it's flawed. While the name might indicate it, pick up is the least objectifying way to get to know women. I lust for women in every way because I love women, not just their looks. Their laugh, their cute little games, all the effort they put into everything, it's just magic! When you actually analyze pick-up in depth, you realize that it's about being yourself in every situation, and treating women like people, not objects. Think about the classical "nice-guy" syndrome. In my opinion, which is basically what pickup has taught me, you shouldn't need to lie to have a great time with women. A typical "nice guy" will act like he shares interests with a woman, act like he likes everything he says, and generally be very fake all the time. Pick-up is about being honest and geniuine with women, while still having a great time. Since I started practicing it, women tell me I'm a much better listener then other guys, I'm much more honest then other guys, ETC.

The objectifying you're talking about is simply the systematic way you record progress with women in one method, which is Mystery Method, the method described in "the game".

While my motivation is lust for women, my ultimate goal every night is to give everyone around me a terrific experience. In the beginning, I needed tactics to do this, and I don't see how there's anything wrong with that.

I've got a suggestion for you. Go visit www.authenticmanprogram.com and tell me what you think. Your perception of pick-up will probably be blown away.

[pagangoddess]

I visited the website and am reading their free report. However it's a 42 page pdf file. I'll read through it and give my thoughts when I'm finished.

[Mehdi]

I've been going out many times with guys from the PUA community. Some of them were regular guys trying to "improve their skills". Some of them were coaches. I've never been impressed what I saw. Actually I've been hugely disappointed.

Some of these guys have turned into good friends, but many I don't want to go out with. They're no fun and it's bad energy around you. The only thing I learned from them is to cold approach. However after a thousand approaches I still believe social circle is superior.

My experience;
* They aren't fun to go out with. They have this urge to approach women when they go out and to force things instead of just letting it happen.
* They're negative. The have this guys vs. guys thing and guys vs. women thing. I've met many very negative and frustrated guys who kept blaming women.
* They fear loss all the time. They can't talk to a woman without trying to get something out of an interaction, and even push you to do the same.
* They think masculinity is defined by the amount of women you slept with and even compete about this.
* They try to play these manipulative mind-games tricks they play on women on you as a guy too. As if you wouldn't be aware of what they're doing.
* They're too analytic. Analyzing situations all the time, thikning of the next step vs. Being in moment (it's the worrying Rara mentoined, very common)
* They have no life. It's all about meeting women.
* Etc

What I also keep hearing from them:
* The sex they get is empty
* PUA can mess you up
* They wished they never discovered this stuff

"The Game" is big part of the problem. Many guys get in the PUA community after reading that book. What they seem to miss is that Style says at the end that when he met his girlfriend, his tricks didn't work on her. And most guys want to meet 1 great girl.

###

About the Jessica Alba thing. You've seen the Paris Hilton videos? The girl is boring. And she's dumb (unless it's an act, in which case she's really smart). Is that really what you want? Or do you want it because PUAs and media tell you that's what hot?

Rion Williams recommends the same thing atypical wrote: travel & meet women abroad. If you're qualifying women on their looks alone, you're really missing on a lot.

###

I do believe there's a need for this stuff. Things are messed up.
* Guys have lived in their basement for years, playing videogames all the time.
* They have zero social skills as a result of that and never had a girlfriend.

Telling them to just go out, is like telling a fat guy to just go the gym. Yes of course it comes down to that, but some advice never hurts.

Imo guys who really have issues with this, should take care of themselves first. If you have lived in your basement for 20 year and never had a girlfriend because of that, you don't have a problem with women. You don't need push/pull and cocky & funny. You need to build your social skills and build a life.
* Take care of neediness: find yourself a purpose that is not meeting women.
* Take care of your body: do some sport, lose the fat, lose skinny look, etc. Will raise sefl-esteem.
* Take care of money: get out of debt, increase income, ... will increase quality of life.
* Build social life: best way to meet women.
* Get female friends, and listen to their dating stories. You'll learn more about that than all the theory. (But don't ask them for advice, that's counter-productive).
* Self-acceptance. Stop thinking that you're not good enough and that you have to act differently
* Authenticity. Being yourself and accept it if people don't like it. You can't expect everyone to like you.

David Deida's stuff is most likely the best thing out there.

###

I know the community well. But I don't have to in order to know women.

My communication with women has been a lot smoother since I stopped worrying about to say and just started saying and doing what i was thinking. My worries about what to say and do stemmed from me trying to say and do the right things to "get her". When I realized that there was no "getting" her, just freeing her to express her desire or disinterest in me, I stopped trying to be, say, or do anything and instead started relying on my instincts. Even if it meant appearing nervous. The outsider looking in test is the worst because initiating a relationship with a girl is not about impressing an audience.

Game relies on the belief that a guy has to convince a girl to sleep with him or impress others by being cool and smooth. It doesn't work like that. She may learn things about you that make you more attractive as you get to know each other, but you cannot control her perception of you no matter how hard you try.

I can and have gone into bars in nothing but a sweatshirt and jeans and still slept with women I consider hot. I've also dressed my best and gotten not so much as a phone number. It's not what you do. It's who you are. That's based on your genes and whole life experiences, not some techniques you learn on a website. And she makes her decision based on that fact.

But I am finished with this discussion. I hope your approach finds you happiness.

This mirrors what I think. From reading your posts Playboy, it seems you believe you have to be a salesman. I wonder where that idea comes from.

You know within the first minutes, even without talking, whether you like someone or not. That works both sides. Persisting is rarely worth it.

[hardestgainer]

I do believe there's a need for this stuff. Things are messed up.
* Guys have lived in their basement for years, playing videogames all the time.
* They have zero social skills as a result of that and never had a girlfriend.

I think there's a bit of a chicken/egg conundrum here. People that you've described may do the things you've described, may do that because they have deeper social problems which occured before they cut themselves off from society.

I bring this up because leaving the house and trying to socialise will cause a recurrence of the old problems which were never dealt with properly at the time. For people that I've described the solution is not as simple as what you're saying.

[Mehdi]

I do believe there's a need for this stuff. Things are messed up.
* Guys have lived in their basement for years, playing videogames all the time.
* They have zero social skills as a result of that and never had a girlfriend.

I think there's a bit of a chicken/egg conundrum here. People that you've described may do the things you've described, may do that because they have deeper social problems which occured before they cut themselves off from society.

I bring this up because leaving the house and trying to socialise will cause a recurrence of the old problems which were never dealt with properly at the time. For people that I've described the solution is not as simple as what you're saying.

You mean they'd need inner game work like affirmations, visualizations, CBT? I agree that's important, but even CBT includes going out and doing it. Best way to grow confidence is still to get positive feedback systematically, and you need to face your fears (gradually) for it.

[Playboy]

This mirrors what I think. From reading your posts Playboy, it seems you believe you have to be a salesman. I wonder where that idea comes from.

You know within the first minutes, even without talking, whether you like someone or not. That works both sides. Persisting is rarely worth it.

Be a salesman? I don't think I get what you're saying here. As I said earlier, pick-up is about good and bad habits. If you've seen The Blueprint Decoded, you've seen how TD describes the process as starting with tactics, then using those tactics to improve your self-esteem, then becoming naturally good. However even if you drop the routines and structure, you'll never stop being CnF or doing push/pull because that's just how men and women interact. It's not something PU created, it's always been that way. Basically it's all just flirting.

I'm not sure if I even responded to what you meant here. Some further elaboration on being a salesman would be appreciated.

Oh and the guys you're going out with seems like they're kind of stuck in Mystery Method world if you ask me. I'm in the community where I live, and we're mostly about just having fun with everyone, and being great with women as well. Your night should never be soley dedicated to pickup every time, although there's nothing wrong in going out just to get laid (women do that too y'know). We usually meet new women, take them with us and have fun together as a group, and then each hook up at the end of the night. The sex you get is empty if you're emotionally detached from the conversation, if you're connecting to the woman at any point(which you should be), the sex is a lot more fun.

[Mehdi]

Salesmen: you seem to believe you have to "build attraction" and show them what you're about. This puts women on a pedestal instead of treating them as equal, gives them power over you and will make you suffer. Why would you do this and who told you to do that?

A lot of PUGs(Pick-up gurus) will at some point in their career come up with a natural way to do pick-up. they might be able to run bootcamps with success, but their methods rarely get any results from beginners. Why? Because they have bad habits. Take Tim's flawless Natural method for instance, beginners will RUN IN, full of confidence, shout out "Hi, you're beatiful, I'm "insert name here*". Then they'll continue on with the conversation, and suddenly slip back into their old habits where they do unattractive things. Even if you are authentically 100% present and saying everything with integrity, it takes only so much to trigger a very deeply socially conditioned behavior in you that repulses women. Structural, pick-up line based pickup ERASES those habits and replace them with attractive ones. You might for example have horrible posture or voice without knowing it, not because you're not confident, but because you've been conditioned so unconciously at a much earlier stage in life.

You're saying that you have to watch what you're saying, because what you say could repulse women. So you should use techniques to cover up that stuff. Lack of authenticity is rejecting yourself, it's lack of self-acceptance. How can anyone be into you if you're not into you in the first place? This is what Rara aimed at in the post you ignored.

How I see it, if she's repulsed by what you're saying, she's not a good fit and so you're better off without her.

My motivation is lust for women. To be more specific, it's lust for women that are considered "out of my league".

I understand that if you only care about getting laid (or think scarcity) you'll want to cling to the conversation and persist to get something out of it. Rarely worth it.

You're 20. How long have you been in the PUA community and why did you get into it? From your answer above, it seems you're looking at this as a game.