The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

[Playboy]

I'm 21 actually. I've been in the community for about a year. What I'm talking about with bad habits is unconcious bad habits, which need to be replaced. It can be something as simple and stupid as picking your nose without knowing, or it can be more complicated like saying mean things without intending so.
Some personal examples are:

1. Being really mean because I had this belief that girls were attracted to assholes
2. Being very cocky funny, never giving her compliments
3. Waiting to touch her until I felt it was "time" to make a move
4. Never asking girls for numbers ever. This was due to some really bad experience with women in the past.

As you can see things like this weren't really a part of who I was authentically or even wanted to be, I just did them without thinking of it. I never asked for numbers, thus I missed out on TONS of girls. Girls thought I was mean, had no intension etc etc just because I did something a bit wrong.

However un-correct it might sound, it goes for every social situation. You calibrate who you are to who you're around, think of speaking to an older woman, or a judge, vs speaking to your friends. If an old lady is repulsed by what you're saying, it doesn't mean you can't get along, it just means you're not good at speaking to old women.

The biggest mistake I used to do with women was to put on some kind of act and try to prove something. They see through that. I practiced doing stuff like push-pull and CnF and ESPECIALLY number closes until I got a feel for how they worked. Now it all comes naturally and I ask for numbers when I like girls. Things used to be static and weird, now everything is natural and good. I feel like I'm being myself.

I'll ephasize on that:

I FEEL LIKE I'M BEING MYSELF

As in, I am always getting closer to the person I want to be.

And really no matter how you see it you HAVE to trigger attraction in a woman if you want to get somewhere with her. She might ADORE your personality, but if she's not attracted to you it won't happen. And certain things trigger attraction in women, which you probably already know.

I got into PUA by reading "The Game" by Neil Strauss. I was just done with a year in the army which had made me feel pretty much useless. I didn't perform as well as I had thought on numerous occations, mostly physical, and my confidence was pretty much non-existant. I had never been good with women at all, I didn't know why, I had no problems talking to strangers, but girls just rarely if at all found me attractive. When they did, I just lost them right away and had no Idea why. After reading a bit of the book, my mind suddenly got filled with hope as my first set went really well.

I guess I didn't approach "game" like most people do. I already "knew" how to walk up to a group of strangers and get them to like me, so what I basically did was to ignore the girl I wanted for a short while (throwing a neg or two) and just talking to her friends. I still remember it like a scene from a movie, suddenly for the first time ever(it felt like) an attractive girl started touching me while she talked to me, smiling, laughing and asking me to join them for tequila shots. The success wasn't consitent after that, but I suddenly realized that this was actually something I could master, not just something I was doomed to either "be" or "not be", as many people like to put it. My success with girls grew and I realized I could improve every area of my life to any point simply by commiting myself to it.

That's how I found stronglifts.

"Rules" of game are merely guidelines. You don't need to become a robot. Before anyone bashes PU, they should consider the desperate unhappyness some guys experience SOLEY from lack of success with women. The most crushing insult people used to be able to give me was that I couldn't even get a girl.

[Mehdi]

"Rules" of game are merely guidelines. You don't need to become a robot. Before anyone bashes PU, they should consider the desperate unhappyness some guys experience SOLEY from lack of success with women. The most crushing insult people used to be able to give me was that I couldn't even get a girl.

That sums it all. You think you're going to be happy doing this. Hence the pursuing. It won't make you happy.

You're doing things backwards. You're outcome attached ("missing on a tons of girls"), think you have to do something ("building attraction"), think you need to change (lack of self-acceptance), ...

After 1 year in the community you already read the game, blueprint, dyd, decker's stuff, and who knows what else. That's a lot of brainwashing. Worse than social conditioning from disney-like movies is pua conditioning.

I recommend you drop that stuff and read "The way of the superior man" by David Deida and "awareness" by anthony de mello.

[Playboy]

"Rules" of game are merely guidelines. You don't need to become a robot. Before anyone bashes PU, they should consider the desperate unhappyness some guys experience SOLEY from lack of success with women. The most crushing insult people used to be able to give me was that I couldn't even get a girl.

That sums it all. You think you're going to be happy doing this. Hence the pursuing. It won't make you happy.

You're doing things backwards. You're outcome attached ("missing on a tons of girls"), think you have to do something ("building attraction"), think you need to change (lack of self-acceptance), ...

After 1 year in the community you already read the game, blueprint, dyd, decker's stuff, and who knows what else. That's a lot of brainwashing. Worse than social conditioning from disney-like movies is pua conditioning.

I recommend you drop that stuff and read "The way of the superior man" by David Deida and "awareness" by anthony de mello.

On my to-read list. How long have you been doing pickup? Are you convinced I won't be happy because that's how things turned out for you, or because of people advocating against it? So far I'm a lot happier and socially successfull then before I started.

[Guillaume31]

I used to feel VERY BAD about myself because i was laughed at by the female community and tried very hard to change or "improve" as I used to say..

.. until i realized there was nothing in me that needed to be changed, because i am who i am and will keep carrying myself my whole life.

At the end of the day, self-acceptance is gained from-inside and it seems to me that the PU thinking is just another way to hide one's insecurity by proving one's self that 'see it's working for me now that i can do this & that'.

I learned the hard way to accept myself and stop trying to connect with all the girls around at social events. In the end I only connected with the people I really felt interested in.

Today i do accept myself (I focus on improving my shortcomings when i feel this is 'not me') and believe self-confidence is the key to feelinggood around people and for people to feel good around you: men, woman, kids.

PU is not the answer for the ones who feel/felt desperate from lack of success with women. It is one possible answer but it is stuck in the realm of chase-the-opposite-sex and misses on the bigger picture : your life - which SHOULD NOT be reduced to success/failure with the opposite-sex.

IMO

[Mehdi]

@Playboy
FYI David Deangelo, Decker, Tyler, ... all got their stuff from David Deida.

Happiness not relying on outside things is self-growth 101. It's central in Buddhism afaik, it's in many self-dev books, etc.

I don't do pickup. I'm just interested in the material and have read most of the stuff that's out there. I discovered the material in 2001 after a breakup. Had several girlfriends before that, but had issues within relationships.

[Playboy]

I used to feel VERY BAD about myself because i was laughed at by the female community and tried very hard to change or "improve" as I used to say..

.. until i realized there was nothing in me that needed to be changed, because i am who i am and will keep carrying myself my whole life.

At the end of the day, self-acceptance is gained from-inside and it seems to me that the PU thinking is just another way to hide one's insecurity by proving one's self that 'see it's working for me now that i can do this & that'.

I learned the hard way to accept myself and stop trying to connect with all the girls around at social events. In the end I only connected with the people I really felt interested in.

Today i do accept myself (I focus on improving my shortcomings when i feel this is 'not me') and believe self-confidence is the key to feelinggood around people and for people to feel good around you: men, woman, kids.

PU is not the answer for the ones who feel/felt desperate from lack of success with women. It is one possible answer but it is stuck in the realm of chase-the-opposite-sex and misses on the bigger picture : your life - which SHOULD NOT be reduced to success/failure with the opposite-sex.

IMO

The meaning of my life is personal growth so far. I've never been happier, no offense but "accepting who I am" as in not trying to improve anything would mean settling and giving up if you ask me. What goals would there be to work for then? What the hell is life without goals to strive for?

[atypical1]

The meaning of my life is personal growth so far. I've never been happier, no offense but "accepting who I am" as in not trying to improve anything would mean settling and giving up if you ask me. What goals would there be to work for then? What the hell is life without goals to strive for?

No offense but you simply don't get it. The point of accepting yourself and being happy with who you are has nothing at all to do with not setting goals for yourself or settling. It means to simply accept your place in the world and finding satisfaction in yourself and what you've accomplished or are accomplishing. It means accepting who you are and being OK with that. It doesn't mean that you don't try to do better but the goals you set should be based on you and not on others.

For example, I've always wanted to become a better speaker. So I've taken a lot of courses and have put myself into positions where I've had to practice a lot. Now I'm pretty good at it. But I did so solely for my benefit and not because I wanted to simply get ahead in my job or because I wanted to pick up on women. Some goes with my interpersonal communication skills. Growing up the ones I had were poor so I took steps to improve those skills. Again, I did it for myself and only for myself. Sure, the side effect was that I now find it easy to talk to people but that was not my desired outcome per se.

Guillaume31 hit it on the head when he said

PU is not the answer for the ones who feel/felt desperate from lack of success with women. It is one possible answer but it is stuck in the realm of chase-the-opposite-sex and misses on the bigger picture : your life - which SHOULD NOT be reduced to success/failure with the opposite-sex.

. Don't take that at face value and simply assume that he means that you shouldn't try to improve yourself. Read a bit deeper into it. It means that regardless of whether or not you've got a 500 lb squat or a 150 lb squat or if you can take any supermodel home or if you're painfully shy you're OK with yourself. Sure, you might want to change one of those things but your happiness is not dependent upon the success of them.

james

[Trifin]

What's so wrong with pick-up, game, seduction, or any of that shit if it's fun and you enjoy it? As long as you don't make it your goal in life. I don't see any harm in being open to advice from others who have been successful with women. From what I've read in the PUA stuff most of them never say what people accuse them of. Yeah, there's a lot of bullshit out there, but there's also some good things about building self-esteem, confidence, and overcoming insecurity. Hey, if it works for ya I say more power to ya....

[tenkev]

If one is OK with oneself the way one is that means that person has no reason for self-improvement. They will just sit around being lazy telling themself they are great the way they are.

A society full of people "happy with themselves the way they are":
A. Does not exist now and never has. An essential part of the human condition is conceiving of an ideal man and measuring oneself against that ideal.
B. Would die a quick death. This society would have no motivation to do anything but fullfill the basest human desires. With nothing to aspire to, the people would quickly resort to violence, hedonism, and general primitive behavior. And they would not be happy.

The only way to happiness is through the self-actualization created by bringing oneself closer to one's Ideal Man.

If part of your image of the Ideal Man is one who is wanted by and can pick up women with ease; then, learning game would make that one a happier person. If not it will not.

[Trifin]

If one is OK with oneself the way one is that means that person has no reason for self-improvement. They will just sit around being lazy telling themself they are great the way they are.

A society full of people "happy with themselves the way they are":
A. Does not exist now and never has. An essential part of the human condition is conceiving of an ideal man and measuring oneself against that ideal.
B. Would die a quick death. This society would have no motivation to do anything but fullfill the basest human desires. With nothing to aspire to, the people would quickly resort to violence, hedonism, and general primitive behavior. And they would not be happy.

The only way to happiness is through the self-actualization created by bringing oneself closer to one's Ideal Man.

If part of your image of the Ideal Man is one who is wanted by and can pick up women with ease; then, learning game would make that one a happier person. If not it will not.

Well said! I take it you've read Nietzsche.

[atypical1]

If one is OK with oneself the way one is that means that person has no reason for self-improvement. They will just sit around being lazy telling themself they are great the way they are.

That's simply not true. Being "OK with oneself" does not necessarily mean that you don't want to improve. There's a huge distinction there and it's easy for that distinction to get lost. Think about it in terms of growing instead of fixing what's broken.

You can't really use "self actualization" and "ideal man" in the same sentence as they aren't really related. Self- actualization (think Maslow) is more about growing as a person than it is addressing your deficiencies. It's not about aiming toward something that you're not. If you're using self actualization then you're refering to the hierarchy of needs. If that is the case then the pick up game is in the "love/belonging" or "esteem" category more than anything. Since part of the esteem category is "respect for others" then one could argue that the pick up game will never get you there.

james

[Playboy]

I think we're drifting away from the topic of discussion here. I understand how you're saying that if you want to be better at picking up women because you think not being able to pick up women is something that's "wrong" with you, I kind of get that. And I disagree with you. I used to think there was something wrong with me because I sucked with women, and guess what getting better with women has filled that hole, as has it for many others. If you have other issues, yes pick-up won't solve them, but for most people realizing that they can actually pick up women if they want to gives them an epiphany, it's kind of like "There was nothing wrong with ME. I just had some bad habits. This means there's really nothing wrong with me in every area of my life, I am perfect just the way I am, I can be anything!". Of course no one in this topic arguing against pickup seems to have had any personal breakdowns because of lack of success with women, so I'm pretty sure you can't relate to this.


Anyways, it's getting off topic. Pick-up doesn't claim to make you happy, it claims to get you women. Saying people shouldn't do pickup because it won't solve their deep problems is like saying people shouldn't work out for the exact same reason. If you want to get better with women, PU is a way to learn to relate, flirt with, connect and attract women. Whether it makes you happier or not depends on the person.

[Trifin]

I think we're drifting away from the topic of discussion here. I understand how you're saying that if you want to be better at picking up women because you think not being able to pick up women is something that's "wrong" with you, I kind of get that. And I disagree with you. I used to think there was something wrong with me because I sucked with women, and guess what getting better with women has filled that hole, as has it for many others. If you have other issues, yes pick-up won't solve them, but for most people realizing that they can actually pick up women if they want to gives them an epiphany, it's kind of like "There was nothing wrong with ME. I just had some bad habits. This means there's really nothing wrong with me in every area of my life, I am perfect just the way I am, I can be anything!". Of course no one in this topic arguing against pickup seems to have had any personal breakdowns because of lack of success with women, so I'm pretty sure you can't relate to this.


Anyways, it's getting off topic. Pick-up doesn't claim to make you happy, it claims to get you women. Saying people shouldn't do pickup because it won't solve their deep problems is like saying people shouldn't work out for the exact same reason. If you want to get better with women, PU is a way to learn to relate, flirt with, connect and attract women. Whether it makes you happier or not depends on the person.

Exactly. It comes down to what your goals are. There's nothing wrong with pickup if you put in into the right context. It's not designed to "make you a better person", and nobody who teaches it makes that claim. It's simply a method. It's a path to self-mastery. A discipline. Much the same way strength training, yoga, meditation, are. It's not meant to change your entire life, but it might change one area of your life. At least it might come in handy with that hottie across the bar...

[Rara]

If you want to get better with women, PU is a way to learn to relate, flirt with, connect and attract women. Whether it makes you happier or not depends on the person.

No, it's not on the person, despite my strong self-reliant streak that usually blames everything on the person.

The very nature of PU as a skill sets up a measuring stick that tells guys that unless they can connect, attract, and sleep with EVERY girl they find attractive then it's simply a matter of something he did to screw that up because PU is about skill (aka game).

Sleeping with a girl is not about skill. It's about mutual attraction, mutual expression of it, and the right situational conditions (or logistics). If any one of those is missing, then it doesn't happen.

PU says a man can control 2 out of three of those factors if not all three.

And that's what's wrong with it. A man cannot control it any more than she can. 1) He cannot control his attraction for her nor can he control her attraction to him (logic begs how can he control her attraction if he cannot control his own?). 2) He cannot control several logistics like his own relationship situation or hers, the fact they're both running late to work, or the fact her boss is watching. 3) And though he can seize control of his own expression of his desire for her, he cannot control her expression of her desire for him.

If a man manages to get a girl by doing things in the quest to become "attractive" that go against the very fiber of his character to get a girl (thereby manipulating her), it sets him up for failure and self-rejection because it wasn't the real him that got her and in order to keep her he has to keep being someone else. That keeps him unhappy lest he have no real identity of his own.

Contrary to popular belief, self-acceptance does not preclude improvement in realistically quantifiable ways. If I want to get better at drawing, I simply need to draw more. I don't need to change the way I dress or the way I squint my eyes. I don't need to do any push-pull. I simply draw more. If I want success with women, I simply proposition more women I find attractive. I don't have to tell a girl she's my bratty little sister or wear super-tight $100 jeans. When, as a result of my actions, I find myself in more relationships than I was in before I started down my course, I am a success.

The PU community does not provide realistic ways for the reasons enumerated above. It proclaims all women are gettable when they are not. It also proclaims that a guy is unattractive to start with and has to become attractive to get women. When a guy fails to get one girl, he blames himself for doing the wrong thing. Yet when we look at what the community calls "naturals" they are as varied as normal "AFCs" in background, looks, and personality. The only thing that differs is that naturals are not afraid to express genuine desire.

If all the PU community did was teach guys to express their desires (through flirting, speaking plainly, nonverbally), and were honest that while they'd get with more girls than they did before by taking the initiative but not all the women they wanted, I'd be for it. But in telling men that they're not attractive and have to become attractive to get women and that they'll only be attractive only after attracting ALL women through game ensures guys will never have any real self-confidence because women are attracted to different things, which cause guys in the PUC to have fragmented identities in order to conform to varying tastes of various women.

[langknow]

One of my goals is to be able to "pick up women", thats why I'm doing stronglifts (you'd think that if I was able to life 100 kg barbell overhead press, you'd think I'll be able to pick some women up, unless they're really heavy.... .

Joking aside......

The whole idea and wording "Pick UP Women", makes it sound like work.....I don't want to pick up women, sounds like hard work.

I think that pickup community is general good, but some people and mindset of it is in the wrong direction. There's no method.... no canned lines, that you need to learn , different type of openers, it just makes it too complicated. Meeting people (women and men), is about communicating and being ok with your self.

I believe, like , lifting weights, that you can go and find a good coach to help you along the way, and that's fine. It's just some of these "systems", are really really out of this world.

I understand, some the canned lines, like "Who do you think lies more men or women?" can be used at some circumstances, but It's just so weird, like , for example, If I was waiting in line at the coffee shop, and someone asked me that question, it would be akward. However, if that person, came up to me and just asked, "whats your favorite drink here", or maybe "hmm, you're in deep thought, what drink are you thinking about"

It just seems more natural ....

Just Rambling here...