The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

[pagangoddess]

I meant getting laid all the time makes you a credible pick-up coach.

So you're admitting that what everyone is saying about pick up is true? All the talk about being natural & authentic is only to get to the prize? That how many times you get laid is the measure of successful interaction with women?

[pagangoddess]

@PG
Masuline/feminine essence is how masculine/feminine you are. Example: if you're masculine you like watching boxing, if you're feminine, you like watching chick flicks. Men & women both can develop this. Example: a man can be a nurse for example and a women can develop the masculine essence for their career. But within a relationship, you need opposites to get attraction. Even within gay couples there's always one who is feminine, and the other masculine.

It's Deida's theory and I like it. It means that if you're a woman with a strong feminine essence, you need a man with a strong masculine essence who you can trust and who will take you into account, but who will lead the relationship. You need someone who is your complementary opposite.

Seems rather stereotypical to me but I'm not familiar enough with Deida's work to make comments on it.

Men mean what they say. Women say what they feel in the moment.

I don't think that is true. As you stated above both men & women can develop their femininity or masculinity. Therefore it would depend on the person's level of each whether they generally say what they mean or what they feel.

[hardestgainer]

Finding a mate is one of the most fundamental aspects of life, but it is also a problem many people struggle with. Here are the ten biggest mistakes men make with women.

Mistake #1: Pursuing Women
Most guys will try all kind of things to get women, such as subtly hanging around a cute girl, walking across the bar to talk to a hot girl, trying to be funny and interesting enough to keep a girl's attention, trying to get a girl's phone number, or simply wishing to be with the girl next to them. The problem with all these approaches is that these men are pursuing women. Pursuing women mentally is as bad as pursuing them physically. No matter how you look at it, women are the ones who decide whom they let inside. They look for a man who walks his own path in life, who is centered in his own reality, and who is not thrown off-balance around her. When you pursue a woman, you are being reactive to her. You are not being yourself, and that's not attractive. Stop trying to get women, but instead let them join you in your life.

Mistake #2: Putting Women On a Pedestal
Most men will look at a hot girl and wish they would be worthy enough to be with such an incredible woman. If you say things like this, you are putting girls on a pedestal. When you do so, you are not being yourself, and that's not attractive. Some guys will even make funny negative comments to bring women down to their level. That might compensate for putting women on a pedestal, but it doesn't solve the problem itself. If you view her from a social perspective, there is no way you can compare with her looks and status unless you are a millionaire or a Hollywood star. However, all is not perfect underneath her skin, and she is too often hiding all kinds of issues and insecurities behind her façade. If you relate to her as a human being, you have your authenticity, ease for life, and carefree nature to offer. In fact, you can be at her level before you even say a word by not being thrown off at all by her presence. If you are feeling and behaving exactly the same before, during, and after meeting her, you are relating to her on an equal level, and that's very attractive. If you can do this, you will succeed. You will stand out, because it is hard for her to find a guy who is not being reactive to her.

Mistake #3: Viewing Women as Sexual Objects
With all the sexy skin shown to us everywhere by the media, we have been conditioned like dogs to view women as nothing more than sex objects. Women have also been conditioned to adapt to that image. When a woman walks around showing off her physical assets and wearing a lot of makeup, she has succumbed to the media's portrayal of women, and also views herself as a sex object. When she thinks of herself that way, it's hard for men not to view her that way too. Most men simply want to have their way with this type of girl, and afterward won't give her much of a second thought, much less want to see her again. The problem is, all this leads to fantasizing about women sexually and therefore creates a bigger disconnection between men and women. All this is social conditioning: it is not natural and does not lead to sex. Viewing women as purely sexual objects gets in the way of connecting with women because you then have an agenda and an attachment to the outcome. You are then trying to get something from her, and that is not attractive to her. Sex is the by-product of connecting with women. You connect with women by shining with your authenticity, integrity, and carefree nature, and by creating a safe space where she is free to like you or not. Once you are really connected to a woman and it feels like the two of you are alone in the world, a sexual relationship will develop on its own, and you won't have to force it.

Mistake #4: Pushing Interaction
Most guys fail with women because they try too hard to get them. Even trying a little bit is too much. It would be like saying your girlfriend is just a little bit pregnant. Either you are pursuing her, trying to get her, and pushing the interaction, or you aren't. When you push a conversation verbally or physically, women perceive the neediness behind it, and it repels them. When you are centered in your reality and you communicate with women without expectations or attachments, it leaves space for the connection to happen, and you don't have to push anything. If you try it and it doesn't work, it's usually because you still have subconscious attachments to the outcome.

Mistake #5: Using Pick-Up Techniques
To compensate for a lack of success, many men learn and use pick-up techniques. The biggest problem with these techniques is that they work once in a while, which makes men try even harder to get lucky again. Using tricks to work around your unattractiveness doesn't really solve your unattractiveness. Even when you get lucky, it rarely leads to a real connection or lasting relationship, because you show a façade that is not really yourself. It's just a matter of time before she realizes who you really are and she decides whether or not she likes you. What really happens is that if you interact with a woman and you act naturally and are not thrown off by her, then she will decide that she kind of likes you. If you play games, she will most likely see through it and will take one of the following actions: reject you; play games too and make you jump through hoops; or, rarely, decide she still likes you and go along. If you can differentiate what helps you from what hinders your success, you can keep your confidence and openness and let go of everything that comes from a state of mind of scarcity, such as pick-up techniques. Even if you get lucky once in a while with these techniques, it is way too much work, and you can't spend your whole life pursuing things.

Mistake #6: Valuing Outward Appearances and Independent Women
Many men consider women with perfect skin and toned, voluptuous bodies to be the best women to pursue for a sexual relationship because that's what we see all the time in magazines. Many men also consider independent career women to be the best-suited mates for long-term relationships. If that's the case for you, it makes you live with the fantasy of sex instead of really experimenting with it. Women have also been conditioned to adapt to those images by the media. That screws everything up, causing all sorts of problems ranging from breast cancer, to a divorce rate in excess of fifty percent, to the presence of more singles than ever in history. The truth is, women who focus too much on their perfect appearance do it to compensate for a lack of self-esteem, and they are disconnected from their authenticity and spontaneity. For that reason, it is hard to feel an emotional connection with them, and sex with them is usually average and mechanical. After engaging in intimate relations with these women, men usually dump them the next day, which lowers their self-esteem even more. As for independent career women, their sexuality is locked down because they are too logical and masculine. Relationships with them are often a power struggle and too often end up in divorce. For physical intimacy to be satisfying and for relationships to be healthy, you need polarity: a very feminine and confident woman who helps you develop as a man. You want authenticity, integrity, a carefree nature, lightness, and spontaneity in a woman to feel one with her. Just shifting the focus of what you value makes a big difference in what you attract into your life: fantasy or reality.

Mistake #7: Trying To Be Someone Else
When you view a man who is very successful with women, you may be tempted to imitate him in order to achieve his success. However, he is not successful because of what he's doing, but because of who he is and the way he lives his life. You and he have different strengths, weaknesses, and life paths, so your styles will be different. You can't try to be yourself and try to be someone else at the same time. When you are acting like someone else, you repress a part of yourself and something feels wrong. You don't want to be your weak self who fails either. There is a powerful and successful self deep inside you, but it is hidden behind fears, excuses, and social conditioning. That's the self you want to get in touch with. Charisma with women is not a skill to learn; rather, it's a natural ability you can uncover by unlearning what hides it.

Mistake #8: Viewing Sexually Explicit Videos, Magazines, or Other Material
Another thing too many men do is watch porn instead of having sex. Porn conditions you to live with sex as a fantasy instead of sex as a reality. It also conditions you to view women as sexual objects and to view sex as a “big bang” act. Sex is the by-product of connecting with a woman, and it is a mind-body-soul experience in which you can experience full-body orgasms that sometimes last more than thirty seconds. The sex shown in porn movies is nothing compared to what sex can be. Watching porn also conditions you to the wrong types of women and the wrong kind of so-called physical “intimacy” instead of valuing their authentic feminine nature. When you are not having sex, you are much better keeping your sexual energy and using it to move you forward in other areas of your life. The best thing you can do to bring sex closer to your reality is to stop watching porn.

Mistake #9: Feeling Bad About Failures
Another common mistake is to feel bad when you don't attract women, when you are single, or when women reject you. You feel bad because you are attached to the outcome, which is the result of having neediness inside you. That neediness is not attractive and does nothing at all to help you. To succeed, you have to let the neediness go. When you walk through the world and you don't care at all how women respond, that projects a totally different (and very attractive) vibe. When you come back alone from a bar, do you beat yourself up for failing, or are you smiling because you had such a great time ? Feeling grateful for what you have and feeling good about what you don't have yet will shift your reality.

Mistake #10: Saying “This Girl is Special”
Women want you to be the same before, during, and after meeting them. Sometimes you may meet a very attractive and nice woman, think “this girl is special,” and start behaving differently around her without realizing it. You then give her too much attention and change your plans too easily for her. You become responsive to her as the stimulus, and that's not what she wants. She wants a man who remains the same around her and who doesn't get too emotionally attached. Even when I could sleep with several women per week, I met a few “special” girls, and although I slept with them, things didn't work out afterwards with any of them. You are the rare catch; don't start behaving differently around the best women.

Thoughts?

For a thread that was originally about these points, I find it strange that probably everyone of these mistakes has been contradicted by some of the advice given in this thread. For people who need the advice of the first post, this probably isn't very helpful.

[Playboy]

I meant getting laid all the time makes you a credible pick-up coach.

So you're admitting that what everyone is saying about pick up is true? All the talk about being natural & authentic is only to get to the prize? That how many times you get laid is the measure of successful interaction with women?

Pick-up at it's simplest form is, yes, about fucking a lot of women. It's a good measure of success. Just like your squat is a good measure of strenght training success, but it's not everything. You might have lordosis, bad squatting technique etc. If you're in it just for a big squat and don't care about your joints, health, posture, weight etc you're going to end up fat and injured.

It's the same with pickup. Sure, you can go ahead and stick to pure technique, but you won't end up happy, although you'll end up with a lot of ONS.

AMP says "The best thing about trying to be successfull with women is that the key to making women feel fantastic, is to feel fantastic about yourself."

Most likely if a guy has built up a huge squat, he's got good form and good health. Just like that, a guy who has taught himself to pick up and fuck whoever he likes probably has got his life together as well. You hear about the ones who don't because people in general don't like the pickup community, and thus they blow it up everytime they hear about social robots (although there are sadly too many of them).

But seriously it seems like you're only trying to look for ways to reaffirm your belief on pickup here, it's a psychological pattern, you're ignoring everything I'm saying that's against your view and trying to explain it with something else, and you're only picking out the things that support your view. It's a natural thing to do for most people, but that's also why most people are really narrow-minded. Please don't be, you seem like an intelligent person, don't let predjudice get in the way of discovering new views.

[pagangoddess]

I hear what you're saying but in statements like the one above you contradict yourself. So is it about authentic, real interactions with other people or just getting laid? From what you're telling me the PU community is about getting laid. Granted I'm only going on your posts as I'm not in the traditional dating scene & haven't been for 15 years.

But Playboy you're missing my point. As I said earlier it's not the methods it's the motivation. What I have a problem with is objectifying the other person. I've been on the receiving end of that & it's not fun. And I think your analogy is a poor one. We're talking about people not barbells.

[Playboy]

I hear what you're saying but in statements like the one above you contradict yourself. So is it about authentic, real interactions with other people or just getting laid? From what you're telling me the PU community is about getting laid. Granted I'm only going on your posts as I'm not in the traditional dating scene & haven't been for 15 years.

But Playboy you're missing my point. As I said earlier it's not the methods it's the motivation. What I have a problem with is objectifying the other person. I've been on the receiving end of that & it's not fun. And I think your analogy is a poor one. We're talking about people not barbells.

Ok I'll give you two options here, you tell me what's more objectifying:

1. Going up to a girl, buying her a drink, agreeing to everything she says, comforming to all her opinions just to please her and "get with her".
2. Approaching a girl, speaking your mind, flirting, teasing, finding commonalities and getting to know her in order to have sex with her.

Think about your past experiences for this one. I think you know which one is the PU option.

[Trifin]

I hear what you're saying but in statements like the one above you contradict yourself. So is it about authentic, real interactions with other people or just getting laid? From what you're telling me the PU community is about getting laid. Granted I'm only going on your posts as I'm not in the traditional dating scene & haven't been for 15 years.

The world has changed a LOT in the last 15 years.

[Trifin]

I hear what you're saying but in statements like the one above you contradict yourself. So is it about authentic, real interactions with other people or just getting laid? From what you're telling me the PU community is about getting laid. Granted I'm only going on your posts as I'm not in the traditional dating scene & haven't been for 15 years.

But Playboy you're missing my point. As I said earlier it's not the methods it's the motivation. What I have a problem with is objectifying the other person. I've been on the receiving end of that & it's not fun. And I think your analogy is a poor one. We're talking about people not barbells.

Ok I'll give you two options here, you tell me what's more objectifying:

1. Going up to a girl, buying her a drink, agreeing to everything she says, comforming to all her opinions just to please her and "get with her".
2. Approaching a girl, speaking your mind, flirting, teasing, finding commonalities and getting to know her in order to have sex with her.

Think about your past experiences for this one. I think you know which one is the PU option.

Yeah, at least some of these guys are being honest that what they want is sex instead of trying to con the girl into thinking they want some other "pie-in-the-sky" ideal....

[Mehdi]

This whole thread is a waste of time.

[Trifin]

This whole thread is a waste of time.

This is the first true statement anyone's made yet

[Rara]

I've had months where I slept with a new girl every week and months where I had sex only once or twice. I've also gone for months without sex. Some months were kinkier than others, with threesomes and orgies. Others were tamer with more cuddling than intercourse.

But all the women I'd been with wanted the same thing as me. And they wanted me. There were plenty of women who were flattered but weren't interested. And there were plenty of women who were interested but only in the context of an exclusive relationship with me. And the only way to get them was to change who I am or what I wanted. Which is why I think PU is crap. I couldn't change the minds of women who weren't interested without lying.

And if they were interested, I found that I could say or do anything and nothing would scare them off.

Now there were plenty of women who said one thing and wanted another. I could tell by the way they stuck around and gave me back enough to keep me persisting.

If this is what you're refering to as PU helping guys figure out because their self-esteem is so low that anything that isn't crystal clear is taken as rejection, I still disagree with you. It's not skills that helped me persist or understand this but rather a simple belief - the only real sign she was not interested is if she got up and left when I was honest and direct. If I placed my hand inside her legs, if she stuck around, I was golden.

I did not rely on how well the conversation wasn't going or how flirty it wasn't. Sometimes the conversation was just plain forced and the silences awkward. At times like that I'd just invite her back to my place or tell her to come closer so we could make out. No game, just saying what was on my mind.

What helped me was self acceptance. I was who I was. And if we didn't get along, we didn't get along. No big deal. And I did not base her attraction to me on how she got along with me but rather whether or not she left. PU says that if the conversation is forced or there are awkward silences, it's the guys fault, and he has to do something before being honest about what he wants. Sex can happen without flirting or people getting along great. Sometimes her attraction is just physical. Sometimes its so intense for her, it makes her nervous and she can't talk because she's worried about messing up. After that night, I never saw them again. They didn't want to see me again.

The girls who I did see again were girls whose company I enjoyed outside the bedroom and was having such a good time with I didn't care if I had sex. There was no persistence needed. The conversations I had with them flowed just as easily as the conversation I had with my friends. There was some flirting, natural flirting. But I never forced anything. Our conversations were normal, conversations that end guys up in the so-called friend zone. We wanted to see each other again so it happened.

Now that I realize what type of girls I like, I don't put up with the awkward silences. Sure I can sleep with some of them. I realize that sex comes down to making a move and not what I say, as well as her willingness and ability to do so as well. And I enjoy sex. But I enjoy the foreplay and pillow talk a hell of a lot more. I enjoy making the connection and laughing more than sex. Sex is great, but it's not the only way to enjoy a woman's company. Intercourse is only one very small part of it. To be honest, I think sex is overrated. And only guys who don't get it make such a big deal out of it. I like my interactions with women to be fun. And that happens when I stop placing so much responsibility on myself and let her do her part. It becomes easy and natural when I go with the flow instead of trying to force outcomes, which is what PU demands because it's goal is to get the woman in bed.

You can't judge your success with women based on whether all or most sleep with you. You have to base it on your enjoyment of their company and have a sex life that satifies you. Because your sex life is your own and very different from that of others. For one, your taste in women is different. Two, your sex drive is different from everyone elses, either higher or lower. Three, what you enjoy about sex is going to be very different from what I or anyone else enjoys about sex. And four, you don't need to sleep with any pre-requisite number of women to be satisfied. Your own satisfaction is limited to you and is the only valid scale of success.

Just as you can't decide you are a success or not based on the amount of money you earn, you can't base the success of your sex life on the amount of women you sleep with. You can't be another sheep in a propaganda machine. You have to do your own thing.

The only valid reason to sleep with a lot of women is to figure out who you are and what you like. But the sooner you accept yourself, the sooner you can find that. If you can't be honest with yourself, you can't be honest with her, and there's no way she can like the real you...or you the real her.

I also think worrying about shit tests is dumb. It's something created by PU and low self-esteem guys.

First, only two tests exists - to see if you really want her and to see if you are who you present yourself to be. The only way to pass either is to be yourself and to be honest. You can lie by playing games, but lying is too much work, especially when there are plenty of attractive women you don't have to lie to.

Second, I now choose to test women. I advocate that every guy test women. If she doesn't laugh at my jokes, she fails my test. If I don't laugh at her jokes, she fails my test. If she doesn't make jokes, she fails my test. If conversation around her is forced or awkward for too long because she's not making an effort, she fails my test. If she doesn't dig my quirks, she fails my test. If she is bitchy in a way that's unappealing (bitchiness can be a turn on), she fails my test. If I fail her test, she fails my test.

If she wants me to play games instead of being honest and direct, she fails my test. Why would I want to be with someone I had to lie to or play games with? I'm not a game player and I'm not a liar and I'm not going to change that about myself. If she is attracted to me but wants me to do those things to get with her, she is not right for me.

The only thing needed for success with women is acceptance of oneself and the expression of honest desire. Focusing on a way to do so is doomed to failure. There are a thousand ways to do anything. Each person needs to find one that brings them the most joy in the process and balance of results. If PU presented that along with the understanding that a guy would never get every girl and that sex depended both on her willingness and ability to do so as well and that the only control a guy had was his expression of his desire, I'd be more open to it.

Instead, it presents guys with the idea that getting women is a skill under his control. It's not. In every instance I slept with a woman, I simply expressed desire. The rest was up to her. In instances that it looked like what PU considered a "good interaction", no effort on my part was made to do so. It relied as much on her as it did on me. It was possible only because of my self-acceptance in who I am as a person. And there were plenty of instances that looked painful to watch and like a bad first date, but simply because I expressed my desires by making a move, I still hooked up with them. I just persisted through the awkwardness.While I don't regret doing so, as it helped me find myself, I also think I'd have found what I was looking for much quicker if I stuck to women whose company I did enjoy naturally.

Nature made this easy for us in order to ensure success. If it's easy and not forced, it's natural. If it's not easy and forced, it's not natural. Thinking negative thoughts like the women you find attractive won't like you unless you say or do something special is a sign of low self-esteem and guarantees failure.

And I agree, this thread has been a waste of time.

[Mehdi]

Great post Rara.

I'd like to keep answering, but it just feels like I'm wasting my time. Until guys actually go out with you and see what you're doing, they won't get it.

@PG
Masuline/feminine essence is how masculine/feminine you are. Example: if you're masculine you like watching boxing, if you're feminine, you like watching chick flicks. Men & women both can develop this. Example: a man can be a nurse for example and a women can develop the masculine essence for their career. But within a relationship, you need opposites to get attraction. Even within gay couples there's always one who is feminine, and the other masculine.

It's Deida's theory and I like it. It means that if you're a woman with a strong feminine essence, you need a man with a strong masculine essence who you can trust and who will take you into account, but who will lead the relationship. You need someone who is your complementary opposite.

Seems rather stereotypical to me but I'm not familiar enough with Deida's work to make comments on it.

Men mean what they say. Women say what they feel in the moment.

I don't think that is true. As you stated above both men & women can develop their femininity or masculinity. Therefore it would depend on the person's level of each whether they generally say what they mean or what they feel.

It's stereotypical idd.

Men & women can develop it. The question is, what behavior is best for the relationship.

[Playboy]

I've got one question for you Rara:

Were you ever at a point where you had never had any experience with women? At a late age, like say 18-20?

[Rara]

I didn't lose my virginity let alone hold hands with a girl till my late 20s.

I know my posts are long, but I'd appreciate them being read

So yeah I know what it's like to be a late life virgin and the fears and introversion that goes with it. But all the insecurities stemmed from a lack of comfort with myself and my sexuality. I cared what others thought. Now I don't care what others think. Other than that, my life and personality is pretty much the same. Even the introvert part. Only I now have a girlfriend and friends whom I love.

[pagangoddess]

The world has changed a LOT in the last 15 years.

The fundamentals of male/female interaction haven't changed. These issues don't stop once you're in a relationship. My age/marital status doesn't disqualify me from speaking on this topic. That seems to be the implication of your statement.