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The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

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The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

Postby Mehdi on Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:37 am

Etienne Charland wrote:Finding a mate is one of the most fundamental aspects of life, but it is also a problem many people struggle with. Here are the ten biggest mistakes men make with women.

Mistake #1: Pursuing Women
Most guys will try all kind of things to get women, such as subtly hanging around a cute girl, walking across the bar to talk to a hot girl, trying to be funny and interesting enough to keep a girl's attention, trying to get a girl's phone number, or simply wishing to be with the girl next to them. The problem with all these approaches is that these men are pursuing women. Pursuing women mentally is as bad as pursuing them physically. No matter how you look at it, women are the ones who decide whom they let inside. They look for a man who walks his own path in life, who is centered in his own reality, and who is not thrown off-balance around her. When you pursue a woman, you are being reactive to her. You are not being yourself, and that's not attractive. Stop trying to get women, but instead let them join you in your life.

Mistake #2: Putting Women On a Pedestal
Most men will look at a hot girl and wish they would be worthy enough to be with such an incredible woman. If you say things like this, you are putting girls on a pedestal. When you do so, you are not being yourself, and that's not attractive. Some guys will even make funny negative comments to bring women down to their level. That might compensate for putting women on a pedestal, but it doesn't solve the problem itself. If you view her from a social perspective, there is no way you can compare with her looks and status unless you are a millionaire or a Hollywood star. However, all is not perfect underneath her skin, and she is too often hiding all kinds of issues and insecurities behind her façade. If you relate to her as a human being, you have your authenticity, ease for life, and carefree nature to offer. In fact, you can be at her level before you even say a word by not being thrown off at all by her presence. If you are feeling and behaving exactly the same before, during, and after meeting her, you are relating to her on an equal level, and that's very attractive. If you can do this, you will succeed. You will stand out, because it is hard for her to find a guy who is not being reactive to her.

Mistake #3: Viewing Women as Sexual Objects
With all the sexy skin shown to us everywhere by the media, we have been conditioned like dogs to view women as nothing more than sex objects. Women have also been conditioned to adapt to that image. When a woman walks around showing off her physical assets and wearing a lot of makeup, she has succumbed to the media's portrayal of women, and also views herself as a sex object. When she thinks of herself that way, it's hard for men not to view her that way too. Most men simply want to have their way with this type of girl, and afterward won't give her much of a second thought, much less want to see her again. The problem is, all this leads to fantasizing about women sexually and therefore creates a bigger disconnection between men and women. All this is social conditioning: it is not natural and does not lead to sex. Viewing women as purely sexual objects gets in the way of connecting with women because you then have an agenda and an attachment to the outcome. You are then trying to get something from her, and that is not attractive to her. Sex is the by-product of connecting with women. You connect with women by shining with your authenticity, integrity, and carefree nature, and by creating a safe space where she is free to like you or not. Once you are really connected to a woman and it feels like the two of you are alone in the world, a sexual relationship will develop on its own, and you won't have to force it.

Mistake #4: Pushing Interaction
Most guys fail with women because they try too hard to get them. Even trying a little bit is too much. It would be like saying your girlfriend is just a little bit pregnant. Either you are pursuing her, trying to get her, and pushing the interaction, or you aren't. When you push a conversation verbally or physically, women perceive the neediness behind it, and it repels them. When you are centered in your reality and you communicate with women without expectations or attachments, it leaves space for the connection to happen, and you don't have to push anything. If you try it and it doesn't work, it's usually because you still have subconscious attachments to the outcome.

Mistake #5: Using Pick-Up Techniques
To compensate for a lack of success, many men learn and use pick-up techniques. The biggest problem with these techniques is that they work once in a while, which makes men try even harder to get lucky again. Using tricks to work around your unattractiveness doesn't really solve your unattractiveness. Even when you get lucky, it rarely leads to a real connection or lasting relationship, because you show a façade that is not really yourself. It's just a matter of time before she realizes who you really are and she decides whether or not she likes you. What really happens is that if you interact with a woman and you act naturally and are not thrown off by her, then she will decide that she kind of likes you. If you play games, she will most likely see through it and will take one of the following actions: reject you; play games too and make you jump through hoops; or, rarely, decide she still likes you and go along. If you can differentiate what helps you from what hinders your success, you can keep your confidence and openness and let go of everything that comes from a state of mind of scarcity, such as pick-up techniques. Even if you get lucky once in a while with these techniques, it is way too much work, and you can't spend your whole life pursuing things.

Mistake #6: Valuing Outward Appearances and Independent Women
Many men consider women with perfect skin and toned, voluptuous bodies to be the best women to pursue for a sexual relationship because that's what we see all the time in magazines. Many men also consider independent career women to be the best-suited mates for long-term relationships. If that's the case for you, it makes you live with the fantasy of sex instead of really experimenting with it. Women have also been conditioned to adapt to those images by the media. That screws everything up, causing all sorts of problems ranging from breast cancer, to a divorce rate in excess of fifty percent, to the presence of more singles than ever in history. The truth is, women who focus too much on their perfect appearance do it to compensate for a lack of self-esteem, and they are disconnected from their authenticity and spontaneity. For that reason, it is hard to feel an emotional connection with them, and sex with them is usually average and mechanical. After engaging in intimate relations with these women, men usually dump them the next day, which lowers their self-esteem even more. As for independent career women, their sexuality is locked down because they are too logical and masculine. Relationships with them are often a power struggle and too often end up in divorce. For physical intimacy to be satisfying and for relationships to be healthy, you need polarity: a very feminine and confident woman who helps you develop as a man. You want authenticity, integrity, a carefree nature, lightness, and spontaneity in a woman to feel one with her. Just shifting the focus of what you value makes a big difference in what you attract into your life: fantasy or reality.

Mistake #7: Trying To Be Someone Else
When you view a man who is very successful with women, you may be tempted to imitate him in order to achieve his success. However, he is not successful because of what he's doing, but because of who he is and the way he lives his life. You and he have different strengths, weaknesses, and life paths, so your styles will be different. You can't try to be yourself and try to be someone else at the same time. When you are acting like someone else, you repress a part of yourself and something feels wrong. You don't want to be your weak self who fails either. There is a powerful and successful self deep inside you, but it is hidden behind fears, excuses, and social conditioning. That's the self you want to get in touch with. Charisma with women is not a skill to learn; rather, it's a natural ability you can uncover by unlearning what hides it.

Mistake #8: Viewing Sexually Explicit Videos, Magazines, or Other Material
Another thing too many men do is watch porn instead of having sex. Porn conditions you to live with sex as a fantasy instead of sex as a reality. It also conditions you to view women as sexual objects and to view sex as a “big bang” act. Sex is the by-product of connecting with a woman, and it is a mind-body-soul experience in which you can experience full-body orgasms that sometimes last more than thirty seconds. The sex shown in porn movies is nothing compared to what sex can be. Watching porn also conditions you to the wrong types of women and the wrong kind of so-called physical “intimacy” instead of valuing their authentic feminine nature. When you are not having sex, you are much better keeping your sexual energy and using it to move you forward in other areas of your life. The best thing you can do to bring sex closer to your reality is to stop watching porn.

Mistake #9: Feeling Bad About Failures
Another common mistake is to feel bad when you don't attract women, when you are single, or when women reject you. You feel bad because you are attached to the outcome, which is the result of having neediness inside you. That neediness is not attractive and does nothing at all to help you. To succeed, you have to let the neediness go. When you walk through the world and you don't care at all how women respond, that projects a totally different (and very attractive) vibe. When you come back alone from a bar, do you beat yourself up for failing, or are you smiling because you had such a great time ? Feeling grateful for what you have and feeling good about what you don't have yet will shift your reality.

Mistake #10: Saying “This Girl is Special”
Women want you to be the same before, during, and after meeting them. Sometimes you may meet a very attractive and nice woman, think “this girl is special,” and start behaving differently around her without realizing it. You then give her too much attention and change your plans too easily for her. You become responsive to her as the stimulus, and that's not what she wants. She wants a man who remains the same around her and who doesn't get too emotionally attached. Even when I could sleep with several women per week, I met a few “special” girls, and although I slept with them, things didn't work out afterwards with any of them. You are the rare catch; don't start behaving differently around the best women.


Thoughts?
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Re: The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

Postby vibragreen on Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:34 pm

My problem is #2 and #10. When I have a girlfriend I smother her in attention and they really hate it. I should learn to stop. It's just one of my many problems.
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Re: The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

Postby AD69 on Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:38 pm

I think that is good advice generally for people looking for a relationship, but not necessarily for people who just want to go out and have a good time.

I found this article quite interesting too: http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/sep/28/sex-women-relationships-tanya-gold
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Re: The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

Postby Falufalump on Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:37 pm

He mentions that the rate of singularity is higher than it's ever been. I wonder what are his thoughts on monogamy? What are your thoughts on monogamy?

That was certainly worth the read for it was interesting. I'd like his thoughts on long lasting, permanent relationships.
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Re: The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

Postby luco on Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:52 pm

Interesting read, thanks. Glad I'm in a relationship, no need to give up porn yet..
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Re: The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

Postby Tmv on Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:14 pm

Ha ha ha
thanks alot mehdi, a lot of these hit the nail on the head for me.
#8, time for me to delete my collection :).

Really cool facts of been working hard on alot of them, and best of all, it's actually working.
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Re: The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

Postby Tmv on Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:43 pm

Another interesting fact for beginners, like me is, just because you read it doesn't mean you're going to be a pro, you really got to go out there, apply it, most likely fail, and think nothing afterwards. practice practice practice, don't give a shit about the outcome, work on the tips given by the books you read and Mehdi, just be natural. Women shouldn't make you happy, you should be happy without any of that (learned that from Awareness today). Btw EVERYONE needs to read Awareness that book will completely change you and will understand these tips better aswell.
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Re: The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

Postby vibragreen on Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:14 pm

I'd also like to mention that these tips should not be used to actively get women. Relationships shouldn't be sought after. They should just happen when the timing and person is right. There are no tips need for actively pursuing women because personally, I think it's cliche and a waste of time. That doesn't mean you shouldn't passively try to intergrate some of this into your life.

It's a bit like being good for santa claus. You can't be good just because you want presents or he'll know and you won't get any.
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Re: The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

Postby Playboy on Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:16 pm

A lot of good stuff, but I strongly disagree with some of it. Like for example "don't use pickup techniques". A better way to say it would be DON'T USE CANNED MATERIAL FOREVER. Let's get an example from other places in life. If you've always acted like an asshole towards children, chances are you're not going to change that behavior without actively doing so. Even though you might authentically and internally not wish to be an idiot, part of your behavior is controlled by habits. Learning pick-up technique replaces bad habits, with good habits. It gives you the tools to convey (and generate) your unique personal positive characteristics and stand for yourself.

A lot of PUGs(Pick-up gurus) will at some point in their career come up with a natural way to do pick-up. they might be able to run bootcamps with success, but their methods rarely get any results from beginners. Why? Because they have bad habits. Take Tim's flawless Natural method for instance, beginners will RUN IN, full of confidence, shout out "Hi, you're beatiful, I'm "insert name here*". Then they'll continue on with the conversation, and suddenly slip back into their old habits where they do unattractive things. Even if you are authentically 100% present and saying everything with integrity, it takes only so much to trigger a very deeply socially conditioned behavior in you that repulses women. Structural, pick-up line based pickup ERASES those habits and replace them with attractive ones. You might for example have horrible posture or voice without knowing it, not because you're not confident, but because you've been conditioned so unconciously at a much earlier stage in life.

Saying stuff like pick up tactics is bad is just another way for PUGs to get customers from rivals. IMO absolutely everything in pickup works as long as you commit to it, having some basic knowledge of how attraction works will keep your reality from shattering if one day your natural method suddenly fails.
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Re: The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

Postby tenkev on Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:27 pm

"Don't pursue women" is terrible advice. Most women never pursue men and men almost always have to make the first move. How the hell are you going to do that if your first axiom is "don't pursue women"?
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Re: The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

Postby Playboy on Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:30 pm

tenkev wrote:"Don't pursue women" is terrible advice. Most women never pursue men and men almost always have to make the first move. How the hell are you going to do that if your first axiom is "don't pursue women"?


It's more like "Don't stalk women". But really, 90% of girls will just sit there and look at you if they're interested. They're socially conditioned to be approached. You will ALWAYS have to make the first move in one way or another. Unless you've got godly good looks. But yeah I really agree with you, NOT approaching women is probably the biggest mistake any man can make.
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Re: The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

Postby Mehdi on Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:38 pm

@Playboy
http://endpua.com/ Thoughts?

@Tenkev
What do you mean with "women never pursue men"?
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Re: The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

Postby tenkev on Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:02 pm

I mean women never make the first move. They are the prey, not the hunters. Willing prey; but, prey nonetheless. If you just sit around and wait for women to come to you you are going to be waiting a very long time.
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Re: The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

Postby Rara on Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:20 pm

I'm somewhat ashamed to admit it, but I turned to pick-up to help me lose my virginity oh so many years ago. Fortunately I've overcome a lot of that negative propaganda enforced not by just the industry, but the media which perpetuates the ideas of having to say and do the right things to get the girl, as well as perpetution of that myth by my own circle of friends.

I've since learned that being direct about my interests has yielded the best results. One might argue I no longer have any bad habits thanks to my "education", but I argue that my "education" prevented me from getting to where I wanted sooner.

I've come to the conclusion that females want males. Not girls wanting boys or women wanting men or chicks wanting dudes. Leaving out the social connotations of the word, on a purely biological level, females want males.

What guys have to figure out is what type of women they want. Do they want girls where they have to "run game" on just to keep her? Or do they want chicks where they have to do nothing more than just be themselves (as nerdy and insecure as they may be)?

There's a reason people end up in relationships with people who have similar interests and see on a regular basis (such as at work, school, etc). And because mutual physical attraction and similar interests are the biggest determinants in relationship development, simply being direct and honest in your interests is the best way to initiate and start a relationship.

Because lets face it, if she was as attracted to you as you are to her, anything you say as long at it wasn't totally insulting is enough to get her wanting to know you and be with you. You can drop a stupid pick up line, an if she's attracted to you, she'll go along with it. If she's not into you, she'll reject you on the pretenses of the line. But when you realize this, you realize it's not the line but you who she is reacting to. This frees you to be honest and direct because you no longer have to rack your brain thinking up silly lines that have absolutely no effect on the outcome.

What Playboy says about the so called bad habits, what I've come to realize is that there are no bad habits. There is only what I do and what others as individuals do. Everyone has their quirks. And if she's not into me or my quirks (such as bouts of introversion), it wasn't meant to be. Why would I want to be with someone who could not accept me for me?

The same is true in reverse. If I think she's hot but has weird behaviors, she's perfect for someone else, just not me. Why would she be with someone who thought she wasn't good enough for him? There are plenty of low self-esteem women out there who do try to cater to their men, but they aren't what I'm looking for. Nor am I looking for a career woman who has no time for me.

It's the reason your friends are still your friends despite the stupid voicemails and text messages you've left. It's the reason your friends laugh at you and tease you when you make your dumb jokes. They don't not return phone calls or flake at the last minute leaving you wondering what you did wrong. And if a girl is into you, she won't do that. If she does, wondering about what you did wrong will leave you crazy. It's her, not you. Maybe she saw something that let her know you weren't compatible. Take that sign as a blessing.

And that's what I think this article posted by Mehdi is referring to - guys knowing what they want and not simply trying to conform to the abstract female ideal perpetuated by the media.

Now some guys will look at this post and think physical attraction is what I think women value and that they have to fit some media stereotype of what is attractive to get the girl. It's still the wrong mindset. Women have different tastes in men just as men have different tastes in women. Some guys like big boobs, redheads, and small asses. Others like just the opposite. If it's true of men, then it's true of women. Some women like hairy guys, tall skinny guys, or more built men. Some even have a thing for the chubby rotund men. I know several women who practically throw themselves at my fat friend because he is fat.

I've also known women who go out of their way to be with me. They converse with me longer. If I'm at work, they'll allow others to go before them just so they could be serviced by me (and they'll admit this later on when dating).

It sucks that it goes against what people generally believe, but really, the best thing I've found a guy can do is be himself and be direct about his interests when he meets a girl he's interested in. Get to know her as a person and decide based on his comfort level around her whether to make a move or not. Why make a move on someone you're not comfortable being around, someone who you feel like you should hide your sexual desires around? And if you feel no sexual desire, why would you want to sleep with her?

I think what the relations between men and women and people in general comes down to is the saying "do unto others as you would have done unto yourself". If you want her being direct with you, do that to her. If you want her flirting with you, do that to her. If you want her honestly liking you for your Star Trek obsession, do that to her about whatever her geeky interest are. If you want her to kiss you, do that to her. If she's into you, she'll return it with interest.

Spot on article, Mehdi, wherever you got it from.
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Re: The 10 Biggest Mistakes Men Make with Women

Postby Playboy on Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:49 am

Rara wrote:I'm somewhat ashamed to admit it, but I turned to pick-up to help me lose my virginity oh so many years ago. Fortunately I've overcome a lot of that negative propaganda enforced not by just the industry, but the media which perpetuates the ideas of having to say and do the right things to get the girl, as well as perpetution of that myth by my own circle of friends.

I've since learned that being direct about my interests has yielded the best results. One might argue I no longer have any bad habits thanks to my "education", but I argue that my "education" prevented me from getting to where I wanted sooner.

I've come to the conclusion that females want males. Not girls wanting boys or women wanting men or chicks wanting dudes. Leaving out the social connotations of the word, on a purely biological level, females want males.

What guys have to figure out is what type of women they want. Do they want girls where they have to "run game" on just to keep her? Or do they want chicks where they have to do nothing more than just be themselves (as nerdy and insecure as they may be)?

There's a reason people end up in relationships with people who have similar interests and see on a regular basis (such as at work, school, etc). And because mutual physical attraction and similar interests are the biggest determinants in relationship development, simply being direct and honest in your interests is the best way to initiate and start a relationship.

Because lets face it, if she was as attracted to you as you are to her, anything you say as long at it wasn't totally insulting is enough to get her wanting to know you and be with you. You can drop a stupid pick up line, an if she's attracted to you, she'll go along with it. If she's not into you, she'll reject you on the pretenses of the line. But when you realize this, you realize it's not the line but you who she is reacting to. This frees you to be honest and direct because you no longer have to rack your brain thinking up silly lines that have absolutely no effect on the outcome.

What Playboy says about the so called bad habits, what I've come to realize is that there are no bad habits. There is only what I do and what others as individuals do. Everyone has their quirks. And if she's not into me or my quirks (such as bouts of introversion), it wasn't meant to be. Why would I want to be with someone who could not accept me for me?

The same is true in reverse. If I think she's hot but has weird behaviors, she's perfect for someone else, just not me. Why would she be with someone who thought she wasn't good enough for him? There are plenty of low self-esteem women out there who do try to cater to their men, but they aren't what I'm looking for. Nor am I looking for a career woman who has no time for me.

It's the reason your friends are still your friends despite the stupid voicemails and text messages you've left. It's the reason your friends laugh at you and tease you when you make your dumb jokes. They don't not return phone calls or flake at the last minute leaving you wondering what you did wrong. And if a girl is into you, she won't do that. If she does, wondering about what you did wrong will leave you crazy. It's her, not you. Maybe she saw something that let her know you weren't compatible. Take that sign as a blessing.

And that's what I think this article posted by Mehdi is referring to - guys knowing what they want and not simply trying to conform to the abstract female ideal perpetuated by the media.

Now some guys will look at this post and think physical attraction is what I think women value and that they have to fit some media stereotype of what is attractive to get the girl. It's still the wrong mindset. Women have different tastes in men just as men have different tastes in women. Some guys like big boobs, redheads, and small asses. Others like just the opposite. If it's true of men, then it's true of women. Some women like hairy guys, tall skinny guys, or more built men. Some even have a thing for the chubby rotund men. I know several women who practically throw themselves at my fat friend because he is fat.

I've also known women who go out of their way to be with me. They converse with me longer. If I'm at work, they'll allow others to go before them just so they could be serviced by me (and they'll admit this later on when dating).

It sucks that it goes against what people generally believe, but really, the best thing I've found a guy can do is be himself and be direct about his interests when he meets a girl he's interested in. Get to know her as a person and decide based on his comfort level around her whether to make a move or not. Why make a move on someone you're not comfortable being around, someone who you feel like you should hide your sexual desires around? And if you feel no sexual desire, why would you want to sleep with her?

I think what the relations between men and women and people in general comes down to is the saying "do unto others as you would have done unto yourself". If you want her being direct with you, do that to her. If you want her flirting with you, do that to her. If you want her honestly liking you for your Star Trek obsession, do that to her about whatever her geeky interest are. If you want her to kiss you, do that to her. If she's into you, she'll return it with interest.

Spot on article, Mehdi, wherever you got it from.


It all comes down to your level of ambition and whether you're happy with your current personality or not. If you want beatiful , intelligent women you're going to have to work on being more attractive, there's no question about that. If you're absolutely unwilling to change your personality and you don't have any desire to get the highest quality women(in terms of looks, wealth, status and intelligence) then there's no need to use pick-up material.

Pick-up material isn't for guys who just "wants to find someone". It's for guys who want to be able to select women as they please and get the best of the best. Obviously this isn't your desire, and that's all up to you in the end. I've got no right to question your goals in life. You say there are no bad habits, that might be, but there are certainly UNATTRACTIVE habits. Everyone are different, but generally the same evolutionary principles apply. Ask any man if he finds Jessica Alba attractive for example.

And Mehdi I'll check out the article later, I like controversial stuff. I'll write what I thnink afterwards.
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