The secret

[Mehdi]

I clearly wrote in the 2nd post of this thread to not turn this into a dicussion like "does this work or not"
* There are books to educate yourself if you're interested in how this works. Read them.
* Don't lose your time convincing people. Works both way: for the believers & non-believers.

Please back on topic everybody.

I see it a lot in use all throughout the forum and I see Mehdi seems to practice the basics of the law of attraction.

I want to know has anyone read The Secret or watched the DVD?
Its a great tool for self development, and it works like nothing else.

Post your stories up of things that you have consciously attracted into your life. I look forward to hear them and share some of my own.

If you have not read or watched The Secret I recommend to anyone to do so. Its only around 40 USD for both the book and the DVD.

[wrenchhands]

I attracted a woman by having luxirous long locks and a good sense of humour, does that count?

Here's a new, on topic thread

[rossi]

I just read week 1 of the 'master key system'. Can't see how this will do ANYTHING. It just describes certain metaphysical propositions.
There is no 'approach' (yet, and I skimmed ahead, can't see it changing). I believe action oriented methods or self hypnosis is better.

[arehb]

I think it's about choice of reality. If you choose to live in a world where your thoughts can magically make money appear, then that's how the world is going to look from your point of view, regardless of what's actually going on. I don't think thinking this way will make money appear magically, but rather that it will make your mind more open to seeing possibilities it otherwise wouldn't have.

If you choose to think everyone is likeable and friendly, you are going to meet more people you find likeable and friendly.

If you choose to think you are really attractive and girls want to sleep with you, you are, most likely, find that girls like you and want you. If you try to pick up 100 girls and you succeed once, you can choose to think you suck at picking up girls and almost noone likes you - OR you can choose to view that one successful pickup as hard proof for how attractive you are.

[namaste]

I can't really bring myself to believe something like "if I wish for something I will get it", and then it magically appears, especially when it's a possession that you want.

is it all a fancy way of saying "with our thoughts, we make the world" ?

[hatchelt]

Back in 2002 I was backpacking around Australia. I was at a great hostel and had made a number of really good friends but was flat broke all the time. Literally guys, I lived on 4 free slices of toast in the mornings and that was it, I had no money. I did however have a car full of petrol from a days work I did a few weeks back. So the plan was to leave, head north and try for a job in Perth.
I was stood in a friends shed talking about my situation. I said to him something like "if I could get a job with a decent, regular wage, I'd stay."
No more then 30 minutes later my friend got a phone call offering him a job paying 1000 a week, all the work he wanted and did he have a friend that would be interested too.

A number of months later, I've met a girl and we've fallen for each other. We want to continue our travels together, but we're both broke. We both work in a hostel, but the wage we make only covers the bills, food, things like that. Our overriding thought is that we need more money to go travelling together, and how great life will be when it happens.
One day, out of the blue, a guy who used to live in the hostel calls me up...he's working on a goldmine in the outback, they're short staffed and would I like a job...paying 1000 a week. I worked for just 3 weeks and then went round South East Asia with the girl.

Honestly guys, you can doubt this all you want and that's cool, but when you live through and witness something like the above, it becomes hard to brush it off.

[wrenchhands]

Isn't that just networking?

I mean, if I just around my house hoping these thoughts, it wouldn't happen, right?

And what about the times when I think "Shit I'm never gonna find work" but then I do?

Sounds like confirmation bias meets confidence/positive thought meets superstition.

[wrenchhands]

And I know Medhi told me not to argue in this thread, but I am thinking positive thoughts about him letting me argue in this thread afterall, to test the secret. I really want to keep the discussion over this idea's merits going, I can feel it happening.

[SimonTemplar96]

I hope this isn't seen as off topic, but I'll present my view about this idea, and also my experiences based on my own understanding of it.

First, I don't think there is anything like a metaphysical law of attraction. I don't think your thoughts, based on yourself alone, can affect external reality (ie the world outside of yourself).
What I do believe, and what I think really occurs with this is that how you view the world determines how you interpret events, and it determines how you act and how you pursue your goals.

People have tremendous power and potential and can accomplish truly tremendous things if they are determined and persistent. The "power of positive thinking" is not that your thoughts shape reality, but rather that your thoughts drive you to action, and your actions do have the power to change the world.

There are numerous ways in which this affects you and your life. I am a fairly positive person. I generally look for the best in other people, I generally expect good from people, etc. I have a number of friends who are just the opposite. For various reasons they expect the worst from people and the generally have negative expectations of how other people will act and treat them etc.

I have seen time and time again that we (my friends and I) can go into the same circumstance, with the same people, and I will get good reactions, I will generally have a good time and like most of the people, while they come away having gotten bad reactions, having had a bad time and in some cases having been treated poorly.

There are two things at work here. One is that because I expect good, I tend to over-look negative things even when they do occur, and I highlight the good things that occur. Thus our perceptions are simply different. Second is that because I expect good, I act differently towards people, and the result is that I get different reactions from the people. Often times someone who is a dick to them is nice to me.

so some of it is merely perception, other is really because what you believe affects how you act. None of it is 'magic'.

On the side of accomplishing goals, belief is important too. Usually negative outlooks drive you to inaction and lethargy. While positive outlooks drive you to action and determination. If you believe success will come, you are far more likely to actually succeed simply because you will act differently and pursue your goal with more determination and persistence.

I have seen this in action quite a few times as well. I know various people who have outlooks and beliefs that drive them to inaction and for the most part their beliefs make them largely useless. The vast majority of people will never even attempt something that they believe they are incapable of. Or if they do, they start out expecting to fail and end up sabotaging themselves because they prepare from the beginning to fail.
I've seen that in myself. Actually I saw it in regard to physical training with myself. I used to work as a security guard and did a fair amount of non-strenuous walking. Even though it wasn't strenuous I often got sore back and such. That had me convinced that I was too far out of shape to even exercise. I had consigned myself that I would never get into shape because I was already too far gone.

At one point I went camping and while camping went hiking with a bunch of girls. I, of course, was pushing myself because I didn't want to appear weak in front of the women and in the process I found I did a lot better than I expected. It kind of opened my eyes that I really could exercise and I really could get back into condition.
Shortly after that I got a gym membership and started lifting again (I hadn't since college).

I can see many ways in which I was basically trained and conditioned to avoid failure by never trying. To avoid anything that was seen as a risk, etc. Really its living in fear of failure.
Believing that you can succeed is a powerful motivator, and it is often the first necessary step to even trying.

People can accomplish amazing things when they are committed, but negative people rarely ever commit, and even when they try they usually hold something back to cushion the blow of failure which they believe will inevitably come. That is how we sabotage ourselves.

[markg]

Good post SimonTemplar96. Whether the 'magic' is true or not, the thought and actions are what counts.

[rossi]

From The Economist, http://www.economist.com/science/displa ... d=13815141

For some people, optimistic thoughts can do more harm than good


“I CAN pass this exam”, “I am a wonderful person and will find love again” and “I am capable and deserve that pay rise” are phrases that students, the broken-hearted and driven employees may repeat to themselves over and over again in the face of adversity. Self-help books through the ages, including Norman Vincent Peale’s 1952 classic, “The Power of Positive Thinking”, have encouraged people with low self-esteem to make positive self-statements. New research, however, suggests it may do more harm than good.

Getty Images

I am important. I am, reallySince the 1960s psychologists have known that people are more accepting of ideas close to their own views and resistant to those that differ. With regard to self-perception, if a person who believes they are reasonably friendly is told that they are extremely gregarious, they will probably accept the idea. But if told they are socially aloof, the idea will most likely be met with resistance and doubt.

Wondering if the same tendencies could apply to making positive self-statements, Joanne Wood of the University of Waterloo in Canada and her colleagues designed a series of experiments. They questioned a group of 68 men and women using long-accepted methods to measure self-esteem. The participants were then asked to spend four minutes writing down any thoughts and feelings that were on their minds. In the midst of this, half were randomly assigned to say to themselves “I am a lovable person” every time they heard a bell ring.

Immediately after the exercise, they were asked questions such as “What is the probability that a 30-year-old will be involved in a happy, loving romance?” to measure individual moods using a scoring system that ranged from a low of zero to a high of 35. Past studies have indicated that optimistic answers indicate happy moods.

As the researchers report in Psychological Science, those with high self-esteem who repeated “I’m a lovable person” scored an average of 31 on their mood assessment compared with an average of 25 by those who did not repeat the phrase. Among participants with low self-esteem, those making the statement scored a dismal average of 10 while those that did not managed a brighter average of 17.

Dr Wood suggests that positive self-statements cause negative moods in people with low self-esteem because they conflict with those people’s views of themselves. When positive self-statements strongly conflict with self-perception, she argues, there is not mere resistance but a reinforcing of self-perception. People who view themselves as unlovable find saying that they are so unbelievable that it strengthens their own negative view rather than reversing it. Given that many readers of self-help books that encourage positive self-statements are likely to suffer from low self-esteem, they may be worse than useless.

[Mehdi]

From The Economist, http://www.economist.com/science/displa ... d=13815141

For some people, optimistic thoughts can do more harm than good


“I CAN pass this exam”, “I am a wonderful person and will find love again” and “I am capable and deserve that pay rise” are phrases that students, the broken-hearted and driven employees may repeat to themselves over and over again in the face of adversity. Self-help books through the ages, including Norman Vincent Peale’s 1952 classic, “The Power of Positive Thinking”, have encouraged people with low self-esteem to make positive self-statements. New research, however, suggests it may do more harm than good.

Getty Images

I am important. I am, reallySince the 1960s psychologists have known that people are more accepting of ideas close to their own views and resistant to those that differ. With regard to self-perception, if a person who believes they are reasonably friendly is told that they are extremely gregarious, they will probably accept the idea. But if told they are socially aloof, the idea will most likely be met with resistance and doubt.

Wondering if the same tendencies could apply to making positive self-statements, Joanne Wood of the University of Waterloo in Canada and her colleagues designed a series of experiments. They questioned a group of 68 men and women using long-accepted methods to measure self-esteem. The participants were then asked to spend four minutes writing down any thoughts and feelings that were on their minds. In the midst of this, half were randomly assigned to say to themselves “I am a lovable person” every time they heard a bell ring.

Immediately after the exercise, they were asked questions such as “What is the probability that a 30-year-old will be involved in a happy, loving romance?” to measure individual moods using a scoring system that ranged from a low of zero to a high of 35. Past studies have indicated that optimistic answers indicate happy moods.

As the researchers report in Psychological Science, those with high self-esteem who repeated “I’m a lovable person” scored an average of 31 on their mood assessment compared with an average of 25 by those who did not repeat the phrase. Among participants with low self-esteem, those making the statement scored a dismal average of 10 while those that did not managed a brighter average of 17.

Dr Wood suggests that positive self-statements cause negative moods in people with low self-esteem because they conflict with those people’s views of themselves. When positive self-statements strongly conflict with self-perception, she argues, there is not mere resistance but a reinforcing of self-perception. People who view themselves as unlovable find saying that they are so unbelievable that it strengthens their own negative view rather than reversing it. Given that many readers of self-help books that encourage positive self-statements are likely to suffer from low self-esteem, they may be worse than useless.

Study is flawed
* It's not about "encouraged people with low self-esteem to make positive self-statements". It's about getting rid of believes/way of thinking that don't serve you anything and replace these. Like replacing negative habits of thinking with positive ones. Or replacing scarcity mentality by abundance.
* Affirmations don't work if you simply write something down. You need to visualize them and put emotions into it. Their study is flawed because they don't understand how affirmations work in the first place.
* Affirmations definitely don't work if you don't believe what you write. For people with low self-esteem they need to build these up. Yyou don't start with 200kg on squats. You start with empty bar and slowly build it up. Same way here, or you'll get internal conflict.

[markg]

I wonder if some people refuse to do or believe anything unless there is a scientific study proving its effectiveness....

"Don't use the M1 motorway on the way home, there's a huge traffic jam."

"Oh yeah, prove it."

"Erm, I can't I was just trying to help"

2 hours later...

"Flaming traffic! I should have gone the other way...."

[wrenchhands]

Yeah, I can't believe people would want to test theories with evidence to ensure their veracity, people are thick like that.

[SimonTemplar96]

I like to say that reason exists to guard against blind faith, and faith exists to guard against blind reason.

Modernist philosophy generally holds that it is wrong to believe something without proof. For examples of this look at how words like "unscientific" are thrown around to discredit ideas and philosophies. The basic idea there is that if it isn't verified scientifically then it shouldn't be believed.

Yet people who are entrenched in this view point never stop to ask themselves questions like "can I prove that its wrong to believe things which aren't proven?" In short the 'scientific' view point has all sorts of philosophical holes of its own that it tries to get people to over-look by pummeling them with "science".

On the other hand, let me ask you guys who are pro secret this...

If you truly 100% believe and affirm, and visualize that you will gain strength/muscle... but you never actually go to the gym and lift weights.. will you gain strength?

I suspect that most will say no.

All those things do serve purposes, and they do have power, but not necessarily in the way that some people present it.

For example, visualization is helpful as a form of mental practice. The mind drives the body and so it is helpful to practice in the mind, just as it is to practice physically. You have to train your mind, just like you train your body.

Affirmations are helpful because so much of what we do is either controlled or strongly affected by our subconscious mind, and our subconscious mind is, in effect, programmed by the conscious thoughts we dwell on.

I don't deny the possibility of miracles, supernatural, and unexplainable things of course. Those are pretty much a required part of my belief system.