TRAINING ATHLETES

[IRISH]

I'd like to start a new discussion on "Training Athletes". Please give your input, advice, experiences,etc.

What do you think really works to effectively train as an athlete?

What programs have worked in the past and what's working for you now?

How many day a week are you training?

Are you training the entire body three days a week or are you on a split routine?

Are you doing any agility, speed training, mobility training?

These are just some ideas for topics.

Looking forward to hearing from everyone.

[Quagmire911]

Seems I misunderstood the topic, silly me :-0

[Mehdi]

This is going to be an advanced topic. I feel like tagging it "advanced topic" to avoid beginners trying stuff they're not ready for yet.
Off Season
* Work on strength, as much as possible
* Work on speed & power. Box squats, power cleans, speed sets, accomodating resistance training (bands/chains).
* Mobility drills/agility drills
* Injury prevention: flexibility, mobility, posture. The more the better.
In Season
* avoid injuries
* continue rehab
* endurance work
* Put strength trainign/ weightl ifting on maintenance. Switch to 2 workouts per week (like workout a/b).
3 days or 4 days
* topic has been beaten to death.
* problem with the 3 day/week squat approach, is that eventually the squat gets too hard. You're losing strength on other exercises. If you look at my log, I've been saying this for some time now that the front squats wear me out on the oh press.
* In that case one could switch to an upper/lower body split. Westside, or splitting stronglifts 5x5 into 4 days: workout A: squat/deadlift workout B: oh press/pull-ups Workout C: squat/power cleans Workout D: bench press/barbell rows (probably better solution lower back wise, just writing this quickly).
* question remains: how many days does your athlete have time: 3x/ weight lifting + injury prehab + mobility drils etc
 

[IRISH]

(problem with the 3 day/week squat approach, is that eventually the squat gets too hard. You're losing strength on other exercises. If you look at my log, I've been saying this for some time now that the front squats wear me out on the oh press).

Good Stuff...so Mehdi what you're saying is in your experience, staying on the 3 day/week squat program is a no no....especially for an athlete. I agree you on it taking away from the other exercises due to the intensity later in your lifting program. So, one could start on the 5 x 5 program (Beg), switch to the 5 x 5 (Reg), then switch to a 4 day split routine (5 x 5) or (Upper/Lower).

Also, there is a lot to successfully training an athlete in all phases. That's why I think that a 4 day would be too much. That is of course that you're neglecting speed training, agility, Plyo's, mobility, conditoning, etc.

I would think that the 5 x 5 (Reg) program using the diversified intensity levels would be the best overall plan for the athlete. You're still training all major muscles (3) time a week with different intensities. And you can use the other 2 days (Tues, Thursday) as speed training, agility, mobility, conditoning, etc. Then have the week ends off for recoop.

My only problem with this is Speed training and Plyo's or very taxing to the CNS. I know some people train Speed Training with Weight training days.

What your thoughts on this?

[1337lolzz]

I'm a tennis player.  I play competetively.
 
I've been doing the 5x5 routine for about a week and a half, and I feel pretty good doing three days a week of strength training.  On monday, wednesday, and friday I do the exercises, and on tuesday, thursday, saturday, and sunday I either do some running, tennis, or both.  I stretch a lot, maybe twice a day.
 
So far, I feel pretty good.  I felt sore the first week, but my body is adapting.  Will I eventually have to change to a two day/week program to give my body some time to recover?

[IRISH]

Well...one thing I think you need to do is take at least (1) day off a week for rest and recoop. Most people take Sundays off...but you can choose what's best for you. Listen to your body and it won't lie to you. It will tell you when you need to back off. Most athletes (Football, etc) drop their workouts in lifting to (2) days a week for maintenance. In-Season is rough enough on the human body, you don't need to add extra resistance training days on top of your in-season training. I'm not sure how Tennis players train and what is your in-season and what is your off-season. But, you want to maintain your strength during the in-season (Maintain). I hope this helps...

[1337lolzz]

I going to continue with the three day/week thing until I feel it's too much.  For us tennis players, there is no "in season."  I play year round.
 
Thanks for the reply.

[Young Athlete]

I'm going to do Stronglifts 5X5 3 times a week ontop of hockey also when track starts i plan to do it then. It comes down to the individual I had hockey after my frist workout and I was sore but after my muscles warmed up I was fine.

[Alex Pullman]

I think that the most important part of a sport is the skill of the sport itself. I would have the athletes spend most of their time practicing the sport, but additionally a strength training regimen will increase overall strength, endurance, stamina, power in all moves, and being stronger makes it easier to execute difficult technical things.

For speed training I would definitely look into Kelly Baggett who has some good info on improving that, in my experience the absolute speed is something that most athletes never really improve on to be truly competive.

Probably 99 % of the athletes you encounter will be so weak that just a general strength training program like the one on this site will be perfect. Also look into the energy systems needed by the sport and train accordingly.

[brentDoesWork]

mr. pullman makes a really good point about the important part of training to most athletes being specific skills development as opposed to general athletic ability
even in weightlifting, where strength development plays a large component in training, the biggest thing most coaches are going to push is developing competition skills - good motor patterns in the snatch and clean-and-jerk
developing a program for an athlete requires a lot of long-term thinking, i don't think an athlete should be training the same way throughout the year
i.e. immediately after competition i generally drop to about 3-4 sessions a week, mostly conditioning and maintenance type work
two weeks after i go to 5-6 a week in which i focus on strength
eventually i'll build up into 8-10 sessions a week, focusing more on skills but keeping important movements such as squats and pulls, and in the weeks leading up to competition i'll start dropping sessions until the week of competition in which i might train 2-3 sessions and then compete
a good program keeps the competition schedule in mind
to this day i've never done any "name brand" program, i've never believed in following a specific order of training days
as of current i'm training 3-4 days a week, Monday was my first training day after competition ... i think most of the time i'm doing what might be considered a "full body" workout, but i don't think of it as "full body," only as movements which encompass what i need to do in competition
 
 
a lot of successful weightlifters put in upwards of 8 sessions a week during certain phases of training, which i think is important ... even though the sport relies heavily on muscle tissue and the neuromuscular system, i think there's a lot of data to suggest that the snatch and clean-and-jerk operate dominantly as neural adaptations, i.e. they're not so much a function of absolute strength and motor unit activation, but of "knowing" the positions and timing of specific movements that make up the skills as a whole and doing them as correctly as possible

[Mehdi]

My only problem with this is Speed training and Plyo's or very taxing to the CNS. I know some people train Speed Training with Weight training days. What your thoughts on this?

They're definitely hard on the CNS. You could couple speed training with weight lifting days, like westside does. Note that some people have better CNS recovery than others. I for example don't do well training at max intensity (hitting heavy singles/doubles, ala westside). However I do well on volume. Other people might do bad on volume, but not well on CNS recovery.
Much of this you'll learn from experience. Getting to know yourself/your athletes. Always best to start simple, force constant progressions; and to only start tweaking when you don't see any progression anymore. That's what I would do, if I could go back.

[Mehdi]

So far, I feel pretty good.  I felt sore the first week, but my body is adapting.  Will I eventually have to change to a two day/week program to give my body some time to recover?

Eventually you'll have to make a choice: what's more important for you. Is strength training a tool to get better at tennis. Or is tennis a hobby on top of strength training? Some people end up making the switch, they enjoy strength training so much their previous sport turns into a hobby. Other use strength training to get better at their sports. Depends.
In time you'll have to choose yes. It will start with decreased performance the day after weight lifting. Switch to a 2 day schedule is good. Or doing tennis technique work the day after. There's always a way to mix things up.

[Mehdi]

Thanks for chiming in Brent. Technique is often overlooked. It should always be a point of focus, in any sport. Getting strong is good, but if you can't apply that strength it's doesn't help much. Simple improvements in technique often leads to increased weights on the barbell. That plus the fact you're avoiding injuries. It amazes me some people still think weight lifting is just "lifting a weigh up & down". There's a reason Starting Strength has 60 pages about the Squat.