Training + Cardio on Same Session - too tired

[MCS2009]

For those of you doing high-intensity lifting and then doing your cardio for maximal fat loss, how much time do you put into the lifting part and how much into cardio?

My usual lifting session lasts about 75 min. and I'm way too pooped to do cardio on same day.

I also heard that doing cardio on same day conflicts with resistance training in that the muscles used are completely different, like sending a mixed signal. Has anyone heard this as well?

[nickphillipps]

I tend to spend about 40min on my weights abd then jump on the rowing machine for 40min~10km, which is a killer after squats.

Not sure what advice i can give you to help other then to think of what your trying to achieve.

As for it being counterproductive doing the cardio straight after lifting because of the mixed signals..... Well i figure they get used to what you through at them so go for it....

though im no expert

[Glutenbob]

I do 3 x 5 for everything, rather than 5 x 5. I have no idea how long my workouts take.

What cardio do you do? Don't do any of that long distance low intensity cardio. Do some HIIT or Tabatas and your cardio time will get cut down tremendously but the effects will be better.

What are your lifting stats. After a certain point, I would switch to 3 x 5 to shorten workouts and make recovery easier.

[knoted]

What cardio do you do? Don't do any of that long distance low intensity cardio. Do some HIIT or Tabatas and your cardio time will get cut down tremendously but the effects will be better.

Not really the best advice. Read this.

[Glutenbob]

What cardio do you do? Don't do any of that long distance low intensity cardio. Do some HIIT or Tabatas and your cardio time will get cut down tremendously but the effects will be better.

Not really the best advice. Read this.

I was pressed for time and as a result I did not have time to fully explain myself. I do not mean that the OP should do true HIIT 3 times a week or more. 2 times is enough. However I do not believe that he should do low intensity work if his goal is fat loss and maintaining muscle. I would much rather do pseudo HIIT on the elliptical trainer than low intensity.

Here is what I do

3 sets of Tabatas on the elliptical machine 2 x week
basketball 1 x week.

That is more than enough for fat loss IF combined with a strict diet.

[knoted]

I'd suggest that if you can do two sets of Tabata style intervals, of any exercise, let alone three, you aren't doing it properly. You should be barely able to walk, about to pass out and throw up all while feeling as if your lungs are about to explode. Intervals are hard, very hard. You will be sore for days. A persons whose sole goal from cardio is fat loss, should do steady state training.

Low to medium intensity exercise should be part of every single persons weekly routine. This will provide many benefits like lower heart rate and blood pressure and increased VO2 max, as well as burning a few calories. This type of training is something that can easily be added to a weight training program without taking away from progress on the main lifts, which is the point. You can do light to medium intensity steady state after a weights session, and you can do it on your off days without too many problems. As always, progression applies. If you are 30+ and haven't done any exercise since high school, start off with 20 minutes fast walking, and slowly work your way up.

HIIT burns three fifths of fuck all more total calories than steady state, even counting post exercise. What intervals will do, is increase VO2 max in less training time than steady state, as well as providing massive benefits to your anaerobic threshold. Mind you, neither help fat loss. A 30 min run at 12 km / hr will be around 500 calories. Doing 30 minutes of 1 min on 1 min off intervals for 30 min will be around 550 calories. Big deal. You could just not eat that muffin and not exercise at all, for the same net benefit to fat loss.

Taking running as an example, as that is something I'm familiar with, I would not have someone do intervals until they can do a comfortable 25 min 5 km. It is very easy to start dreading intervals if you do them too often (like any more than twice a week), and then just pay off the whole exercise thing completely, or do them half heartedly, which is basically just medium intensity steady state any way. The benefits just can't outweigh the disadvantages until a person has decent enough recovery that they don't feel shattered for the next 48 hours. If you are lifting heavy weights 3 times a week, I would recommend doing no more than a single interval session.

To directly answer you Nick, if you can't do cardio training straight after weights because you're stuffed, it's not that big a deal. Do some light to medium intensity training, say twice a week on your off days building up over the weeks. Pick whatever you like, ride your bike, go for a fast walk / slow run, doesn't matter. Slow and steady is the name of the game. Just remember though "You can't out train a bad diet". Meaning, you aint going to lose fat with an excess of calories, and it's much easier and more effective to address the input side of the equation.

As far as mixed signals, or maintaining muscle, I have never found any evidence that suggests either steady state or interval training will directly reduce muscle mass. As long as you aren't over training in general anyway. Happy to be proved wrong though.

[thefinalsql]

Best weight loss success I had, won't say fat loss, because at the time I was not concerned with other than losing weight, was walking, An hour plus every single day for several months.

Walked first thing in the morning with no water or food.

[MCS2009]

A few things I've observed since I posted my original dilemma of not having enough energy to do my cardio after training.

I train M-W-F. I was forced to stop doing my HIIT cardio on my off days because of a heel spur worsening from the impact. I was doing the cardio for 60 min., by the way. In laying off the cardio for a couple weeks, I noticed that both my strength and size increased proportionately, but so did my BF, I think. I was able to train heavier and with less fatigue.

I skipped my Fri. training and went in on Sat., trained fairly hard for about 45 min. and was finally able to do 20 min. of elliptical and threw in a little interval training.

My diet is clean, am for the most part following Mehdi's fat burn 101 diet & eat all natural/organic, take many supps, but still have been unable to reduce ab fat, even when I was much younger. I've always had a conlfict between adding size and BF at the same time.

I'm not a beginner at training (turning 50 next month, but look 35-40), but am fairly new to the latest approaches, like HIIT. A lot of guys I know once they reach their 40s are doing HGH, HCG, etc. for anti-aging and BB, but I'm reluctant to jump in so fast.

Only thing with me is that my thyroid has always been sub-par (hypo) and I need to address that - however, naturally! That, right there, is obviously an issue with stubborn BF.

My goal is simple: add size, reduce BF.

I think if I can limit my traning to no more than 50 min., I'll have enough juice to endure at least 20 min. of elliptical (can't do treadmill because of heel spur). Now, I've proven it to myself.

The question is - should I stick with this routine and see how it goes or increase the elliptical to 30 min.?

[atypical1]

One thing you could try is the stationary bike. This is low impact and can be done on your days off if you keep the resistance low. The bodybuilder trick is to do this for a decent amount of time (think 40+ minutes) a couple of times a week to help balance out your bodyfat.

It's definitely a balancing act. I am hesitant to tell you to cut your weights short because I believe that being muscular does more for your body fat than the elliptical can.

james