Vertical Jump Development

[mick82]

Hi All,

I've been following the Vertical Jump Bible for a little while now. Its been good and I've added nearly a foot to my vertical. However my vertical was appallingly bad. I used to be a middle distance runner with great endurance but nearly no power..... which meant my starting running vertical was about 15"

Anyway I recently had a major health scare and stopped training. All is ok thank goodness and I'm about to get into a full strength program. I did the assessment in the VJB and my reactive strength is ok. I really need power. Rather than do the VJB program which is 2 days weights & 1 day plyos I was considering doing stronglifts to get powerful more quickly. Then I can maintain power with 1-2 sessions a week and do a reactive program from the VJB to develop the rest. Like cutting and bulking, do one at a time, do it properly, then maintain while focusing on the other.

Whats everyones thoughs on that approach? VJB is good but progress is slow for me, even on the strength focused program. I fell like I need to focus big on power. Plus VJB does nothing for upper body (except the compounds). I'd like to gain that extra benefit from stronglifts too.

PS I play beach volleyball 2 nights a week which maintains my reactive strength without specific training.

Opinions?

Cheers, Mick (Aus)

[siimon89]

I say do Stronglifts and skip VJB totally. If you do Stronglifts program and play volleyball 2 days a night, you will get more than enough from both worlds! And speaking generally, doing plyos isn't recommended until you can squat at least 1,5x your bodyweight with good technique.

I believe you might get better power improvement a lot faster from Stronglifts than from VJB as a novice.
Good luck,
/Simon

[vongSTAA]

As siimon89 said, you're probably better off doing SL5x5 until you can squat 1.5x your own bodyweight (even the VJB recommends that for optimal results, plyometrics be done once you're squat strength is up to this point, or if you can do 5x pistol squats) and then move onto a plyometrics program (perhaps the intermediate-advanced ones in the Vertical Jump Bible) with maybe 1-2 sessions per week of strength training (unless your only goal is to increase your vertical jump) as well.

[Nilan666]

I'd like to correct one and all here. One *does not* require a minimum 1.5xbodyweight squat to do plyometrics. That is required only when you are attempting the depth jumps and drop jumps where the potential of injury is high if there is not a strength base in place.

That being said mick, i'd like to know, how have your progressed through the VJB? Did you start with the beginners plyometric workouts or did you start with something more advanced?

Stronglifts is good to get you started on the strength building stuff. But you'd be hard pressed to do any reactive work. I'm telling you this from my personal experience. I'd recommend you stick with heavy duty lifting for 3 months straight. After which you test yourself on the parameters as detailed in VJB.

Also, what are your current strength stats?

[vongSTAA]

Never said it was required, just that you're better off (according to the VJB) but it's not the only way.

[mick82]

Thanks guys for the replies.

body weight = 180lbs (a bit of excess fat, % unknown)
bench = 100lbs 5x5 (never tried a 1RM max)
DL = 242lbs 5x5 (never tried a 1RM max)
squat = 143lbs 5x5 (can handle a lot more but only just switched to a gym with a power cage, was doing them on smith machine before so deloaded heavily to get form right on free weights before loading up.... only a few weeks into it. My max on smith is a worthless number because my upper body didn't have to do anything and the form was garbage, locked into the machines curve, actually started to hurt me )

On VJB I started on the strength focused novice program. I've only got about 6 months of solid weight training behind me. This program was not the beginner one but one step up. It was 2 days of leg strength, one day light to medium plyos per week, no upper body at all. I progressed in a fairly linear way but made all the newbie errors (straying from the program, adding stuff, going for big lifts and sacrificing form, trying to lift big numbers too quickly etc)

Since my health scare (possible multiple sclerosis, all clear now) I am looking to start fresh applying the learnings I've made so far.

Since I play 2 days highly plyometric sport and my plyo strength is already pretty good I simply thought I might concentrate purely on strength to get that up to par, hence leaning toward 5x5.

Cheers.

[Nilan666]

Never said it was required, just that you're better off (according to the VJB) but it's not the only way.

Agreed. One can do any kind of hopping/bounding/jumping without having a 1.5xbw squat base. Only depth jumps and drop jumps require that kinda strength.
BTW glad you finally bought VJB

[Nilan666]

Thanks guys for the replies.

body weight = 180lbs (a bit of excess fat, % unknown)
bench = 100lbs 5x5 (never tried a 1RM max)
DL = 242lbs 5x5 (never tried a 1RM max)
squat = 143lbs 5x5 (can handle a lot more but only just switched to a gym with a power cage, was doing them on smith machine before so deloaded heavily to get form right on free weights before loading up.... only a few weeks into it. My max on smith is a worthless number because my upper body didn't have to do anything and the form was garbage, locked into the machines curve, actually started to hurt me )

On VJB I started on the strength focused novice program. I've only got about 6 months of solid weight training behind me. This program was not the beginner one but one step up. It was 2 days of leg strength, one day light to medium plyos per week, no upper body at all. I progressed in a fairly linear way but made all the newbie errors (straying from the program, adding stuff, going for big lifts and sacrificing form, trying to lift big numbers too quickly etc)

Since my health scare (possible multiple sclerosis, all clear now) I am looking to start fresh applying the learnings I've made so far.

Since I play 2 days highly plyometric sport and my plyo strength is already pretty good I simply thought I might concentrate purely on strength to get that up to par, hence leaning toward 5x5.

Cheers.

That's good mate.Get those numbers up while *ensuring* you play your sport. Do keep in mind that you must keep up with the sport at least once a week, otherwise, it'll take a while to get the jumping proficiency back. I learnt it the hard way

While you were on the novice program, were you still playing volleyball side by side? Starting with the beginners plyometrics might have been a good idea, just my opinion. It's harder than it looks.

And can you get 60 slalom jumps in 10 seconds?

[mick82]

Nilan thanks for your advice. Especially about losing jumping proficiency/ reactive ability. That would be a horror outcome for me.

I was playing volleyball while on the novice program but on a more social team. I'm training for the nationals in Sept 2010 (played the last round 3 months ago in the middle of my health scare... no training... I got smashed at the net ). The social version wouldn't have done much to maintain my reactive strength by itself.

Maybe beginner plyos would have been good. Hindsight is 20/20. Looking back just gives me a sore neck And I've never done slaloms in a routine but don't think I'd get 60 in 60 secs, thats pretty full on.

[Nilan666]

Give slaloms a shot. Your reactive ability will shoot up as you improve your ankle stiffness. I can do those 60 double legged hops in about 8.5-9 seconds. Haven't quite mastered the 1-legged version of it though.

And yes keep up with your sport. I lost all of my sprinting prowess last year! I'm doing plyos this time that will hopefully keep some of my movement efficiency intact. Sprints in cold winter mornings ain't comfortable!

[siimon89]

So far this winter I'm only doing Clean Pulls/Power Cleans as for explosive exercise. Do you think its enough to keep the explosiveness I have and to develop it more?
I also do heavy Squats of course which is proven to develop explosiveness.

[Nilan666]

So far this winter I'm only doing Clean Pulls/Power Cleans as for explosive exercise. Do you think its enough to keep the explosiveness I have and to develop it more?
I also do heavy Squats of course which is proven to develop explosiveness.

From what i remember Kelly saying, cleans/olympic lifts will help to keep the explosiveness intact. He said they are useful during the winter months

Heavy squats will help develop strength, but explosiveness i'm not sure. How much are you squatting btw?

[siimon89]

So far this winter I'm only doing Clean Pulls/Power Cleans as for explosive exercise. Do you think its enough to keep the explosiveness I have and to develop it more?
I also do heavy Squats of course which is proven to develop explosiveness.

From what i remember Kelly saying, cleans/olympic lifts will help to keep the explosiveness intact. He said they are useful during the winter months

Heavy squats will help develop strength, but explosiveness i'm not sure. How much are you squatting btw?

Good Read the book too but wasn't sure about this since I didn't exactly remember.

I've seen lots of studies showing correlation between maximal squat / bodyweight and sprinting times on 20-30m. Also how people who trained with something like 60% vs 90% of 1RM Squat got more explosive. And believe it or not, the 90% won!

[Nilan666]

So far this winter I'm only doing Clean Pulls/Power Cleans as for explosive exercise. Do you think its enough to keep the explosiveness I have and to develop it more?
I also do heavy Squats of course which is proven to develop explosiveness.

From what i remember Kelly saying, cleans/olympic lifts will help to keep the explosiveness intact. He said they are useful during the winter months

Heavy squats will help develop strength, but explosiveness i'm not sure. How much are you squatting btw?

Good Read the book too but wasn't sure about this since I didn't exactly remember.

I've seen lots of studies showing correlation between maximal squat / bodyweight and sprinting times on 20-30m. Also how people who trained with something like 60% vs 90% of 1RM Squat got more explosive. And believe it or not, the 90% won!

It would be really good if you could post the links to those articles. It's be nice to have to look through them again. Yes i'm aware of a good strength to weight ratio in the squat leading to faster accelerations. But point is, one needs to do sprints alongside squats if one wants to reap its benefits this way. One simply can't keep squatting with heavy weights and then expect one fine day to go on track and post personal bests! I was under that illusion, and so i don't want it to happen to anyone else! And that lol is for me....damn i wish i'd found Kelly's articles earlier!

Oh the nifty piece of advice is not in VJB but in his other manual, the No Bull Speed manual...so continue doing the squats for strength building and cleans to express that strength(power/explosiveness)

[Nilan666]

Maybe beginner plyos would have been good. Hindsight is 20/20. Looking back just gives me a sore neck And I've never done slaloms in a routine but don't think I'd get 60 in 60 secs, thats pretty full on.

Just noticed this and wanted to correct so that anyone else who might be reading this thread,and is not fully aware of it might get confused. Its 60 in 10 seconds, not 60 seconds.