Weighted Body-Weight Exercises

[killerdude494949]

Is it just me, or is that weighted body-weight exercises are far superior for stimulating muscles and triggering growth than using weights (weighted push up vs bench press for example)? I found it interesting that the two most important exercises are actually weighted body-weight exercises (squats and deadlifts )

[clavelle]

I am not following this thread...can you please explain? Squats can be done with BW, IE bends and pistols...but how in the hell do you do a BW dead lift? Pretend to lift a bar off the ground? Not making fun of you bro, but did I miss a new definition of BW exercise?

[killerdude494949]

I am not following this thread...can you please explain? Squats can be done with BW, IE bends and pistols...but how in the hell do you do a BW dead lift? Pretend to lift a bar off the ground? Not making fun of you bro, but did I miss a new definition of BW exercise?

My "bodyweight" exercise i mean one where you use your intended muscle to move the body away against gravity. traditional examples are pull ups and push ups. your body either gets closer or further away from the intended muscle against gravity. we move our body (with or without added weight) against gravity rather than weights in the opposite direction, thats what i meant lol, like bench press versus weighted push up

what i realized is that the squat is really a "weighted squat" because its a bodyweight squat with added load like adding weight to our body when we do a pull up to increase our weight to make it harder, get it? just so happens the (bodyweight) squat is too easy for people, so we just add weight on our backs and thus increase the load to challenge the body. same as deadlifts...body moves against gravity but simply doing a deadlift motion without a bar is not hard, so we hold a bar in our hands.

is it that these type of exercises are better for building muscle? i feel that a weighed push up will develop the muscles way more than a bench press.

[mjh]

what you're describing is the difference between closed kinetic chain exercises and open kinetic chain exercises. Closed kinetic chain= hands or feet are static and the body moves through space. Open kinetic chain= body is static, and hands or feet, usually with added weight connected to them, move through space.

Squat: closed. Leg press: open.
Push up: closed. Bench press: open.
Dips: closed. Decline bench: open.
Inverted row: closed. Bent over row: open.

Closed kintetic chain movements are often described as better because they generally invlove more muscles and joints. Stabilization and all that. But some closed kinetic chain exercises are tough to add weight to in a reliable, incremental and safe way... push ups for example (Mark Rippetoe agrees with you that push ups are a better movement than bench press).

I've also seen it suggested (by Eric Cressey, maybe) that a beginner shouldn't bother with doing the bench press until they've exhausted the benefits of the push up and its variations.

[clavelle]

Thanks Mike, I was thinking for a second I didn't know what BW meant and I have been wrong all these years. I am sure your explanation has helped him out with his definition of what weighted body-weight exercises means.

[holvoetn]

what you're describing is the difference between closed kinetic chain exercises and open kinetic chain exercises. Closed kinetic chain= hands or feet are static and the body moves through space. Open kinetic chain= body is static, and hands or feet, usually with added weight connected to them, move through space.

Squat: closed. Leg press: open.
Push up: closed. Bench press: open.
Dips: closed. Decline bench: open.
Inverted row: closed. Bent over row: open.

Nice explanation ! I always wondered about the difference.

Closed kintetic chain movements are often described as better because they generally invlove more muscles and joints. Stabilization and all that. But some closed kinetic chain exercises are tough to add weight to in a reliable, incremental and safe way... push ups for example (Mark Rippetoe agrees with you that push ups are a better movement than bench press).

For pushups, a backpack with a sandbag on your back is all it takes to add weight. Works your core as well. I am currently using a 25kg sandbag and I can tell you it is hard as hell.
But I agree it can get more difficult once the numbers go way up (for example I am not seeing myself lugging around with 100kg of sand on my back, let be that I am not even seeing a solution right now how to contain it and to keep it there though given time I might find something )

[rere]

That's one thing with the exercise world, no one yet has come up with a weighted push-up device.
Maybe that's why weighted dips are an alternative when push-ups become too easy.
Gymnast say dips are better than push-ups, coach rip says that also.
I have not done push-ups for a while, while focusing exclusively on 5x5.

I done a set the other day and cranked out 35 reps.

Am sure in the future, the bench press will be a thing of the past, if someone out there can invent a push-up device which can load 200kg on your back with saftey?

Hmmmmmmm I wonder.

[holvoetn]

Am sure in the future, the bench press will be a thing of the past, if someone out there can invent a push-up device which can load 200kg on your back with saftey?

Hmmmmmmm I wonder.

As stated, a sandbag can be used.
When increasing the weight gradually, your core will also adapt to handle that weight.
I agree handling hundreds of pounds/kgs requires some special kind of backpack but with a bit of inventive thinking this should be solvable.

Or am I seeing things too simplistic ?

[mjh]

As stated, a sandbag can be used.
When increasing the weight gradually, your core will also adapt to handle that weight.
I agree handling hundreds of pounds/kgs requires some special kind of backpack but with a bit of inventive thinking this should be solvable.

Or am I seeing things too simplistic ?

I think so. In my imagining, I don't see how it could be practical or safe to maneuver a heavy weight onto your back, secure it somehow, get down into position... then reverse those steps after the reps. Think about how you put on a backpack... one arm at a time, usually twisting the torso in the process. Think of the stresses that series of motions will put on your back.

Also, there's the question of escaping from under the weight if it proves to be too much.

[DaveT]

Simple solution - have kids.
Ask them to 'ride' on your back while doing push ups. Easy to maneuver on/off, and a single shout will allow escaping. They will also get heavier with time, especially if you get them to do 5x5. Don't know how it would look when they reach 16yo though!
And if you don't have kids, you might get strange looks trying to borrow other people's! (I need them for strength training - oh sure!)

[holvoetn]

As stated, a sandbag can be used.
When increasing the weight gradually, your core will also adapt to handle that weight.
I agree handling hundreds of pounds/kgs requires some special kind of backpack but with a bit of inventive thinking this should be solvable.

Or am I seeing things too simplistic ?

I think so. In my imagining, I don't see how it could be practical or safe to maneuver a heavy weight onto your back, secure it somehow, get down into position... then reverse those steps after the reps. Think about how you put on a backpack... one arm at a time, usually twisting the torso in the process. Think of the stresses that series of motions will put on your back.

Also, there's the question of escaping from under the weight if it proves to be too much.

Hey, I am an engineer, don't tempt me
I was thinking this morning in the car about a way how this could be done. Even with an escape route

Basically:

- Two stacks of bricks with a board on it.
- The board is on one end resting on the ground, the other end on the bricks.
- Height just enough for you to crawl under.
- Add sandbags on the board.
- Get under the board.
- Start pushing.

Something like that should work, no ?

[holvoetn]

Simple solution - have kids.
Ask them to 'ride' on your back while doing push ups. Easy to maneuver on/off, and a single shout will allow escaping. They will also get heavier with time, especially if you get them to do 5x5. Don't know how it would look when they reach 16yo though!

Even when they grow, keep them on your back
It will be like to story of Milo of Kroton and his calf
http://www.combat-aging.com/milo.html

[rere]

Hey, I am an engineer, don't tempt me
I was thinking this morning in the car about a way how this could be done. Even with an escape route

Basically:

- Two stacks of bricks with a board on it.
- The board is on one end resting on the ground, the other end on the bricks.
- Height just enough for you to crawl under.
- Add sandbags on the board.
- Get under the board.
- Start pushing.

Something like that should work, no ?

Hmmmm, interesting
Maybe if your serious enough, get a working model together perhaps?
I'm being serious that does sounds like a sound idea.

[Seth]

Simple solution - have kids.
Ask them to 'ride' on your back while doing push ups. Easy to maneuver on/off, and a single shout will allow escaping. They will also get heavier with time, especially if you get them to do 5x5. Don't know how it would look when they reach 16yo though!
And if you don't have kids, you might get strange looks trying to borrow other people's! (I need them for strength training - oh sure!)

This made me laugh.
Now many a strength trainers will be deemed as pedos, but it's all just a misunderstanding!

[erebusii]

what you're describing is the difference between closed kinetic chain exercises and open kinetic chain exercises. Closed kinetic chain= hands or feet are static and the body moves through space. Open kinetic chain= body is static, and hands or feet, usually with added weight connected to them, move through space.

Squat: closed. Leg press: open.
Push up: closed. Bench press: open.
Dips: closed. Decline bench: open.
Inverted row: closed. Bent over row: open.

Closed kintetic chain movements are often described as better because they generally invlove more muscles and joints. Stabilization and all that. But some closed kinetic chain exercises are tough to add weight to in a reliable, incremental and safe way... push ups for example (Mark Rippetoe agrees with you that push ups are a better movement than bench press).

I've also seen it suggested (by Eric Cressey, maybe) that a beginner shouldn't bother with doing the bench press until they've exhausted the benefits of the push up and its variations.

I really like the explanation there. I'm having a brain fart right now, but what are some other comparisons or if you don't have anymore how about some more closed chain movements?