Why do people get freaked out (GOMAD)

[killerdude494949]

when they are told to drink a gallon of milk a day? when you think about it, its not a lot of liquid to down since you're already supposed to be drinking like a gallon of water a day anyway.

[bluestreak]

I think a lot of people thinking about GOMAD are skinny dudes and, for whatever reason, just don't eat/drink much. The thought of drinking that much does sound like a lot, even scary, when you might have been trained to think that 1-2 glasses was a lot.

Then there's the whole nutritional content worry... i.e. that it has fat, which we have been trained to believe is very bad for us.

Oh, and there's the fear of getting fat. Seems all skinny guys (including me at first) don't want to lose their perfectly flat stomach and if anything want to lose more fat. Reminds me of those people that want a contractor to build a house but don't want them to kick up any dirt. It's not like it can't be taken care of during/afterwards - assuming it's a problem at all.

[meza]

Extremely skinny guys that like to "brag" about having a "six-pack" kinda make me laugh by now... even though I have a somewhat visible six-pack myself, I'd for sure trade it for an overall bigger looking body (not fat, but you know what I mean). Gah, I can't wait to start GOMAD (though I have to since it's so expensive).

[killerdude494949]

I really want to try GOMAD but I really can't get over the fact that I will get fatter. I'm not exactly skinny, I weigh 230 at 6'3''. Myt bodyfat is probably around 15% but I'm not sure since I lost my caliper. I'm not into the whole 5% body fat look, but neither am I into 20%. It's pretty tempting to just bust out a 6 week 20 rep squats + GOMAD cycle because I wouldnt mind gaining 10-15 lbs of muscle that quick. My only problem is that I've struggled to keep the fat off ever since I was a little kid. And losing strength to get lean bothers me. I'm sure I'll do it someday though.

[ricepower]

Dont worry killerdude, if you want to do GOMAD go for it.

If always had a big gut but skinny arms, really terrible 'physique' to be honest. Was always known as fat in school etc.

But ive upped my calorie intake hugely since training and all I have noticed is muscle gain. BF has dropped a little too. Building up a calorie excess really helps with everything, I know get hungry every 1-2 hours no matter how much I eat.

[killerdude494949]

Would 20 rep squats work in conjunction with the Anabolic Diet if caloric excess is present? I have no problem getting enough low carb calories. Heavy cream is my weapon of choice.

Surely my GH levels would sky rocket during the cycle.

Low carbs = Low Insulin = Higher GH
High rep squats = Higher GH
Carb Loading = Higher GH

I just might give it a go.

[Portillo]

Most ppl get freaked out by the littlest things. Yet ppl would happily smoke a cigarrette or something like that.

[NoGood]

Killerdude:
Funny thing is, growth hormone is not directly related to muscle growth, besides it's intriquing name! It aids in growing your tendons and ligaments.

An additional gallon of milk a day is actually quite a lot of calories in is by far not the best approach to go around gaining weight. A smaller and controlled caloric excess is to be preferred, but no excess is worse than too big of an excess in terms of gaining muscle.
I'd be scared too!

[killerdude494949]

Mark rippetoe quote:

"It is because over thirty years of direct observation has demonstrated to me that when trainees drink one gallon of milk added to their regular diet and train in a progressive linear fashion, they gain significant muscular bodyweight, and those that do not drink their milk, even in the presence of progressive linear training, fail to do this. They also fail to continue progressive linear training for the same length of time, because this is facilitated by the steady weight gain. I understand that you're asking me if I have controlled for other factors such as failure to do the program correctly, and the answer is yes, of course I have, because I am not a complete idiot. Those that will not do the program are not being considered when I make these remarks, because that would be too fucking obvious a hole in my analysis. The difference in the milk drinkers is that THEY GET BIGGER THAN THE ONES WHO WON'T DRINK THE FUCKING MILK. Please tell me that you understand this now."

[NoGood]

It is virtually impossible not to get bigger when consuming more than 2000 additional kcal a day. The average daily caloric expense of an adult male is around 3000, so yes increasing your caloric intake by 40% WILL put on weight. I've said it wasn't the best approach to gain weight because you risk going from skinny to fat. I do realize that some just want to put fat on to not look as skinny, but in the long run it will serve you far better to gain a higher degree of lean muscle rather than go crazy and overfeed yourself. Overeating does not force additional muscle growth no matter how badly you want it.

This is not a contradiction to what you quoted Rippetoe on. If you get too few calories or protein your muscular gains will diminish and since Rippetoe is not listing the complete diets of all the individual subjects in his analysis it is simply impossible to tell if that is the reason for the lesser muscular gains of the non-GOMAD athletes. I have my doubts Rippetoe was measuring his athletes with fat calipers and it is by no means any sort of scientific study nor does Rippetoe claim it to be. He is merely observing this and are only leaving out (from his own statement) the ones that fail to train his program. He doesn't claim it is the best approach either, merely suggesting that people who do drink 1 gallon of milk a day is gonna put on more muscular mass than those who do not. That could very well be true.
I could make a similar study showing that those who cut 2000 kcal out of their diets are more likely to lose weight than those who cut 500 kcal even if they followed the same program.

Are you honestly going to tell me that getting a major excess of calories is the way to go about a healthy weight gain, while knowing that this is the way most people got overweight or obese?

The GOMAD approach is merely a simplification of a weight gaining diet and it is always better to be in a caloric excess than not to be if the goal is to gain muscle so in that regard it is great. Thinking it is the end all, be all of dieting is simply being naive in my opinion.
What I suggest? Get a hold of your diet. Being able to control which way you want your weight to go is an admireable feat that will probably proof useful if not for yourself, then for friends or relatives later on in your life. The GOMAD offers no control at all, it is merely using rocketfuel for a Volvo.

I am sorry if this came off as a rant. I have a great respect for Rippetoe and I am by no means trying to offend you, Killerdude, and if the above suggests otherwise, I apoligize. Just remember that there are several ways to go about things and you should never close or fix your eyes to any of them before you know what they are about or what other approaches there are. The GOMAD has it's place, but I don't see it as any sort of longterm solution.

[mjh]

Hey, if GOMAD doesn't appeal to you, that's fine. But you're making sweeping judgements on it and the people that do it, but I think you're missing some key points:

• I have never seen GOMAD described as the be all and end all of dieting
• nor have I ever seen it described as a long term solution
• GOMAD is usually recommended as something to be done with a good whole food diet as a base
• No one is going to become obese doing GOMAD, provided they're not unbelievably stupid enough to ignore the fact that they're putting on too much fat
• GOMAD offers a lot of control, because every person that chooses to do GOMAD has the choice at any time of stopping, or of reducing their milk intake, according to their progress and goals.
• the people I know who have tried GOMAD are very attentive to their health and nutrition. They monitor changes and continually reassess their goals and methods

Just remember that there are several ways to go about things and you should never close or fix your eyes to any of them before you know what they are about or what other approaches there are.

This is pretty condescending. I don't know him well, but I don't think killerdude is ignorant or closed to other ideas.

[killerdude494949]

Bro, there is something to milk that makes it more than just calories. There is WAY more to gaining muscle mass than eating in a caloric excess. Certain foods have different effects on your hormones. I promise you that you will make quicker lean mass gains on an old school diet of milk, eggs, cream, liver, red meat, wheat germ, digestive enzymes, etc than eating a stupid modern diet which tells you not to eat saturated fat and to eat skinless chicken breasts and potatoes.

While both approaches will indeed work, I bet you the old school diet will work better.

Another thing to consider with milk is this: You gain tons of weight in your first year of life drinking what and only what?

[DaveT]

I think Rip sums it up best when he says this about milk:

Milk works because it is easy, it is available, it doesn't need any preparation, and it has all the components necessary for growing mammals, which your trainees most definately are. There also seems to be something special about milk that the equivalent amount of calories, protein, fat and carbs can't duplicate in terms of growth enhancement. It may be the fact that milk has been shown to have very high levels of insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1), a peptide hormone that has been shown to have some tenuous relationship to accelerated growth in mammals. But that research is far from conclusive; suffice it to say that people who drink lots of milk during their novice phase get bigger and stronger than people who don't.

It isn't the be all and end all, but it has worked as a good food source for a lot of people trying to gain muscle for many years. It's thoroughly tried and tested. If you're worried about fats, then skimmed milk is always an option.

[killerdude494949]

The concept of skimmed milk makes no sense. Taking the fat out of milk makes no more sense than taking out the protein.

[NoGood]

I am not suggesting some wierd health magazine diet that tries to avoid all sorts of fat, nor am I suggesting to cut out milk from your diet. I am merely against the idea of adding a major caloric excess with the greatest benefit being your put on a lot more fat compared to a diet that also consists of plenty of fats, protein and cholesterol enhancing food sources, but is putting you in less of a caloric excess.
There is indeed way more to gaining muscle than caloric excess. There is also more to gaining muscle than just drinking a lot of milk.

It may be me, but if I am to put on more weight I'd prefer it'd be muscle over fat. Although you can be too fuzzy about gaining fat, you can also be too careless in my opinion.

As mjh pointed it out and after rereading my post, I realize I may have come on more aggressively than I intended and if anyone feel insulted, be assured that it wasn't my intention. I don't think of Killerdude as ignorant in anyway nor am I trying to make judgements on anyone.

Anyway, I think I explained why I would be freaked out if someone told me I should drink an additional gallon of milk each and every day.