Iuri R. from Brazil wonders if the StrongLifts 5x5 program would still work if you substitute Back Squats by Front Squats. Quote...
Mehdi, Iuri here.
So, i read your 5x5 report. Honestly, your e-mail encouraged me. The answer is yes, i will give a try in your 5x5 program.
The problem is, in my gym, there is no power rack. I tried the Smith machine but I got bad knee pain. So, my question is, can change the Squats for the Front Squat ? I know the Front Squat emphasizes more quads than hips, but the program still works in this case ?
Thanks for answering
writing from Brasil
Iuri Rossi
I assume you want to Front Squat instead of Back Squat so you can get the bar on your front shoulders by simply cleaning it from the floor on every set. Well I don't like a Front Squat version of StrongLifts 5x5, at all, for 2 reasons...
One, do you realize you'll never be able to clean your max Front Squat? Sure if you start with the empty bar and add 5lb every workout, it will work. But once you get to 200lb, you'll either be death when you have to Front Squat for 5 reps what you just cleaned... or you won't even be able to clean that weight. Either way, you're limiting the amount of weight you can Front Squat.
Two, your max Front Squat will always be lower than your max Back Squat. This is because the limiting factor on Front Squats is your upper-back, not your legs. I actually worked up to 308lb on the Front Squat last week after not doing them for 19 months. Guess what? Sore upper-back the day after, had to foam roll it. You'll never hit your legs as hard with Front Squats as with Back Squats.
Here's why all this matters: muscle size is directly related to strength gains, and bigger weights means more calories burned. So even if you somehow manage to clean your max Front Squats (good luck with that) you'll still be working your body less hard. And that means smaller and slower gains compared to the guys who do StrongLifts 5x5 as laid out - doing Back Squats, NOT Front Squats.
Look, I'm NOT anti-Front Squat at all. I actually did Front Squats only for 2 years because I was stupid and because idiots told me if your Front Squat goes up, so will your Back Squat - it will NOT. I could barely Back Squat my Front Squat after Front Squatting only for so long. Now, after 19 months of Back Squatting solely, I broke my Front Squat PR by 22lb... without training for it. Could probably hit a 330lb Front Squat (2x my body-weight) if I did it for a few weeks.
My point: Front Squats are awesome to assist your Back Squats, not to replace them. What if your gym only has a smith machine? Then it sucks and you should find another gym, build a home gym or keep spinning your wheels.
Hi Medhi, thanks for this article, it’s actually incredibly relevant to me right now!
Just did my first front squats 5×5. It went very well. The reason I went to front from back, is because I don’t yet have anything like squat stands to do back squats from. So I was having to clean it off the floor, get it over my head and onto my back, do the reps, then get it back over my head and lower to the floor. This is obviously a bad way of doing it, but it’s my only option right now. Also, it was killing my overhead press progress, because I had nothing left in my arms and shoulders by the time I got to them.
So I got some more weight yesterday and knew I would not be able to do this crappy back squat method anymore. I tried front squats instead. And they worked great! I did both front and back with a weight I was comfortable with, and the fronts were MUCH easier. I’m guessing this is because my back squat form is bad.
Still, it was a good experiment, and it’s good to know how you feel about front vs back. If I can manage to join a well-equipped gym soon, I will definitely move to back squats only.
You could try a Steinborn Lift instead. I’m sure it works for quite a bit of weight.
When I first started SL 5×5, I only had what came with my weights (bought them off Craigslist from some guy), which was a bench attached to uprights. I could get those uprights high enough to set up the bar for squats. No real safety if the weight got too heavy, though, so I got a power rack after a few weeks.
Why not do Zercher Squats instead? Doing Zercher you don’t have to clean the weight.
I discovered stronglifts in September 2008. Back then I was also training at some gym without a power rack. I started doing the 5X5 with frontsquats and soon found out that I couldn’t clean my work weight anymore. After some tricks and stuff me and my training buddy finally made the best decision ever. We put some money together and bought a power rack, a bench, a bar and some weights.
Never looked back!
I do have to say that the initial fase of 5X5 with frontsquats still made me a lot stronger and convinced me of the 5X5 program. So I do think it is a very good way to start. It will also frustrate you and make you looking for another gym / home gym, which is also good.
Hey Medhi, this is great advice. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about front squats as a supplamental exercise sometimes. In my Texas Method program I’ve got a light squat day mid-week for recovery and I was thinking about doing front squats on that day but I’m not sure how to do it right. I’ve read Starting Strength’s take on it but your advice is always clear and concise.
Problem is that gyms that don’t have a power rack (ever more pervasive in Europe, I notice) simply don’t want people to work with heavy weights. Even if you were to do the Steinborn lift or to powerclean the weight off the floor, chance is pretty high some trainer will come to you and tell you to stop it. Deadlifts in front of a trainer are a good test case: load 120 kg on a bar or whatever you can lift, deadlift it and see the response. A trainer in a gym with a ‘no heavy’ policy will react on deadlifts like a bull on a red flag.
There are many reasons for it which you can find all over Mehdi’s posts and on the forum. Bottom line is it sucks, and you should always check these things out before you get a membership.
If I had the space, I’d save up for a home gym and be done with all the limitations and annoyances of a commercial gym.
What happens if access to a power rack is impossible? Should I continue my front squats? I’d think so. Something is better than nothing.
Nice advice Mehdi and good question Maslow. I’m actually thinking of doing front squats too when I’m strong enough for Madcow which has a midweek light squats too. Is it possible to do front squats during those “light squats” day?
I believe this is the first time I’ve seen the word ‘stupid’ related to a compound exercise in this blog. I am really surprised. Been doing front squats for a few months now (Madcow) due to facet joint problems that are exacerbated by back squats. Haven’t had upper back pain. Front squats work are great for working the abs, glutes and upper back due to the effort it takes to keep the bar path as straight as possible. Not as much effort on the hamstrings due to the angle but deadlifts seem to take care of that. Front squats may not be the exercise of choice for those squatting over 400 lbs, but I’m hard pressed to see how they would be a ‘stupid’ choice. I do agree that only gyms with cages/racks should be used.
Thank you for all of your blogs and hard work. It has been the best resource for building muscles and losing fat.
Michael
Ok Mehdi. Thanks for answering. The problem is that my gym sucks. But build a home gym is not an option and neither change my gym. So what i should do ?! As Xizel said, “Something is better than nothing.” I will keep doing Zercher and Hack Squat till i change my gym.
Thanks again.
writing form Rio de Janeiro
Iuri Rossi
I just moved to Salvador, Brazil. Ive tried two gyms here and they both suck; no power rack; no olymipic barbell; the plates holes are to big for the bar so when i deadlift the plates dont stay prarallel and whole thing leans over. I’m one of the only men that squat, the gym is divided in two, all the girls doing lower body and all the men doing upper body. i use the squat rack and i just stop when i think i cant do another rep.