What I Think of Crossfit (and How to Mix With StrongLifts 5×5)
Jul 10th, 2008 by Mehdi Posted in Training Programs
Image credit: Crossfit
When I asked which products you wanted me to review, readers Adam, bret k, Tom, Anthony, root, ukdudeinuk and haig requested that I give my perspective on Crossfit and their principles.
I own 60 issues of the Crossfit Journal and use some of the Crossfit principles with people I train. There’s a lot of stuff I like about Crossfit, but there’s also a lot of stuff that I don’t like. Read on.
What is Crossfit? Crossfit is a strength & conditioning program. You train 3 days on/1 day off or 5 days on/2 days off. Crossfit posts your workout of the day (WOD) each day on their website.
This comes from the Crossfit FAQ:
CrossFit is in large part derived from several simple observations garnered through hanging out with athletes for thirty years and willingness, if not eagerness, to experiment coupled with a total disregard for conventional wisdom.
Let me share some of the more formative of these observations:
1. Gymnasts learn new sports faster than other athletes.
2. Olympic lifters can apply more useful power to more activities than other athletes.
3. Powerlifters are stronger than other athletes.
4. Sprinters can match the cardiovascular performance of endurance athletes, even at extended efforts.
5. Endurance athletes are woefully lacking in total physical capacity.
6. With high carb diets you either get fat or weak.
7. Bodybuilders can’t punch, jump, run, or throw like athletes can.
8. Segmenting training efforts delivers a segmented capacity.
9. Optimizing physical capacity requires training at unsustainable intensities.
10. The world’s most successful athletes and coaches rely on exercise science the way deer hunters rely on the accordion.
What I Like About Crossfit. Mainstream gyms have you work with machines or make you do cardio only which leads to subpar results. Crossfit is one of the fastest growing fitness movement and offers a better alternative.
- Free Weights. No machines. You’ll do Power Cleans, Overhead Squats, Turkish Getups, Snatches, but also body-weight exercises, kettlebells, rings, etc. Even women do these exercises and they aren’t bulky.
- Hard Workouts. You always try to beat your previous record. Your goal is to decrease your time or do more reps/sets each WOD.
- Low Carb Diet. Most people do better eating high protein/high fat/low carb, getting the majority of their carbs from fruits & veggies.
What I Don’t Like About Crossfit. It’s a lot better than what mainstream gyms have you do, and you’ll get in shape, but there are several things wrong with doing Crossfit without any additional work.
- Too Much Endurance. You’ll increase your strength, but don’t expect to increase your Deadlift to 2x body-weight.
- Lack of Programming. You jump from one thing to another every WOD: today long runs, tomorrow singles. Too much of everything at the same time will make you average in a lot of things, but great at nothing.
- Hard for Beginners. You can’t learn proper technique using endurance workouts. Crossfit also seems to think that puking is normal/hardcore.
Mixing Crossfit with StrongLifts 5×5. One approach I like with people who are past the beginner’s stage, is mixing a Crossfit WOD with a strength training program. Reader haig asked:
I’m doing a 5×5 advanced schedule right now and am going to start crossfit next month 5 days a week. I would love to get your opinion as stated by a previous commenter on how you would possibly schedule a hybrid crossfit/strength training regiment to get VERY strong and VERY fit.
Understand that you can’t get very strong AND very fit at the same time. Your muscles can’t adapt to both types of exercise. Training endurance & strength simultaneously will inhibit your strength gains.
Realize also that increasing your maximal strength will increase your endurance as explained here & here. If you need to lose fat or need extra endurance work or if strength isn’t that important, try this:
- Monday: StrongLifts 5×5
- Tuesday: WOD
- Wednesday: StrongLits 5×5
- Thursday: off
- Friday: StrongLifts 5×5
- Saturday: WOD
- Sunday: off
Pick one WOD and do it for a couple of weeks — I like John Davies‘ “The Bear“. Try to beat your previous record every time. If your strength goes down, and food/recovery is ok, you’re doing too much.
For total fitness I like Ross’s set up the best. Crossfit is interesting I would like to hear a review by Victor though since he did it a while.
Nice article
If your strength goes down then by definition your recovery is not okay. Which is how you know you’re doing too much. You can’t recover from it completely before the next workout.
I think you probably meant food/sleep.
Couple things:
1) Good post. I agree with a lot of it.
2) I did achieve a 2X bodyweight deadlift (@ 175#) while doing strictly crossfit. It is about there that I stalled, however.
3) There is not enough back squatting. Coach Rip said as much at the barbell certification I attended. Add a 5×5 back squat at least once a week, IMO.
4) The “lack of programming” is Crossfit’s genius, IMO. Your body never knows what kind of hell it will be enduring that day, and thus must adapt to anything and everything. But don’t kid yourself, Coach Glassman is a fitness genius, and there is programming involved (its just at an advanced level). Crossfit delivers monster fitness.
5) Crossfit is easily scaled for newbies. BrandX Martial Arts scales the WODs into several categories. But you can do it yourself, too, by changing exercises, reps, rounds, etc. Some of the workouts are impossible to complete at first. I know I couldn’t do 150 pullups, even kipped, when I started crossfit. A few weeks ago, I did 3 rounds of 800M dash / 50 pullups (1.5 miles running and 150 pullups — kipped) in under 30 minutes.
6) An example of a way to scale that workout: instead of 3 x 800M / 50 PU, a newbie could substitute 400M runs and 20 pullups. Or substitute jumping pullups. Or assisted pullups. Or negatives. That is one beauty of crossfit…
7) Agree 100% that you can’t learn a lot of the movements in the course of a workout. The Oly-lifts, which crossfit employs regularly, require coaching and practice.
9) Be careful when you start Crossfit (if you do). There is something called rhabdo (google it), and it can be fatal. Ease into it, and after a few weeks start going hardcore. Believe me, if you have never done a Crossfit style workout, it is harder than it looks on paper.
10) Crossfit is about being a better athlete, not necessarily the strongest person in the gym. You will do handstand pushups and relatively heavy (225#) deadlifts in the same workout, for time. You will run sprints, do muscle ups, row, back squat, do pullups (galore), clean and jerk, do burpees (which are the devil), double unders, kettlebell swings, ring dips, snatch, front squat, box jumps. There are heavy (Max Effort) days, although they are not as common as metabolic conditioning (metcon) workouts. Mehdi is right, and very few people will reach their ultimate strength potential through strictly crossfit. I am one of those people, which is why I have been on a strength training kick for about 2 months now.
11) Your body composition will improve doing crossfit. The interval/high intensity style of most workouts allows the body to retain muscle mass while you lose fat (unlike long, steady state endurance training). IF YOUR DIET IS CLEAN, I should add. There are many examples of people putting on 20-30 pounds of lean body mass in a few short months of crossfitting and clean eating, although those people were all smallish (155#) to begin with.
12) Crossfit changed my life, and reminded me that I can be so much more than I am. When I started, I did “Dianne” in 45 minutes. The workout is 3 rounds. Round 1: 21 x 225# deadlift, 21 handstand pushups. Round 2: 15 x 225# deadlift, 15 HSPU. Round 3: 9 x 225# deadlift, 9 HSPU. A few weeks ago, I got it in 8:49. Similarly with pullups…when I began, I could do 11. My best (strict) pullup number has more than doubled. I am faster, stronger, can jump higher, am more powerful, have better agility and balance, have better steady-state endurance (despite never doing steady-state) and have a better body composition than when I started Crossfit.
Love the articles . . .
I have a friend who is extremely dedicated to cross fit and for 2 years he has battled numerous injuries. While he is very in shape, the lack of emphasis he places on technique causes some of these WOD to cause more harm than good.
Just like Bret k said above, Pukie the Clown is the CrossFit mascot. Taking into consideration the shape that people who do CrossFit are in, if these guys work out hard enough to bring themselves to the point of puking, that is pretty hardcore. And that’s a good thing! Of course, if you are a run of the mill gym guy or girl who just wants to lose a couple of pounds, it’s probably not for you.
Wick
Good call on injuries. I, too, have suffered injuries while crossfitting. And sometimes it has stemmed from improper form and/or fatigue. LEARN THE TECHNIQUE AND PRACTICE IT FIRST!
But I have also injured myself weight lifting (push press).
As Mehdi hints at, learning proper form is first and foremost, and then scaling where appropriate, will help prevent injury. Not sure one can workout 5-6 times a week for long periods of time without injuring oneself (or at least tweaking something). Just gotta be as smart as possible.
Great Article Mehdi, I was always curious about your stand on Crossfit. YOu say it’s impossible to get very strong AND very fit at the same time. How about relatively strong and fit? (ie. 1.5x squat 2x DL) while not neglecting other aspects of fitness( dips, handstands, endurance conditioning) . do you think Ross Enamait’s training has managed to achieve both? I don’t understand why he can deadlift 495lbs@ 170BW when he doesn’t powerlift( he claims) he only snatches. Plus his conditioning seems to be superhuman. Is his training method excellent?
I don’t want to be VERY STRONG AND VERY FIT but i do hope to be balanced in both. ( strength meaning 1.5 Squat 2x DL 1x BW Press etc)
thanks
I’m really glad you posted about this. I’ve been doing the SL 5×5 beginner for a year or so, and have recently finished clearing out the garage and building what I refer to as my “Crossfit gym”. My intention was to alternate SL-5×5 with CF-WOD, but I’m just not interested in doing many of the WODs. Especially running. I’m very interested in many of the exercises, and spend a lot of time watching the videos and practicing the lifts.
I really enjoy the experimentation aspect of Crossfit, especially where it relates to functional strength. I think they are a great resource, and I hope they are hugely successful in changing the public view of fitness.
But I’m just going to use the things that interest me, and pass on the rest.
@Ryan
I feel Ross Enamait’s stuff is superior to Crossfit. Ross can deadlift 495lbs because he lifts heavy stuff: he does heavy sandbag work, farmer walks, weighted glute ham raises, etc. I like his stuff a lot.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Mehdi. I’ve been curious about Crossfit for awhile. Their glorification of puking is what turned me off, though. I’d prefer to have an intense/hardcore/whatever workout without throwing up. Good form and staying injury-free are also very important to me.
One request: Could you check out P90X and let us know what you think?
Most of your problems with crossfit, are exactly why we do crossfit. You are right, the crossfitter is not going to be the strongest guy at the guy in most cases, but he will be near the top and he will be able to do many of the things that the strongest guy can’t (gymnastics, running). The reason we do crossfit is that we don’t want to be the best at one thing, we want to be really good at alot of things, which is why we are so popular with mil, leo, fire, etc. Those guys don’t need to be massively strong, just relatively strong and ready for the unknowable. If you have the journals, then you have access to all the programming that goes into crossfit. People are always thinking there must be some kind of magic that we aren’t being told, we’ll that’s just not true. We want a program of variance with an unknow reoccurance of known variable to compare progress it really is that simple.
For the record, puking only occurs when you work hard enough to throw up. So, really, its up to you. I have never actually vomited (although I did during wrestling) from crossfit, though I’ve been close. And throwing up is not a goal. It just sometimes happens when an insanely difficult workout is combined with an insanely motivated person.
Same with form. Some people sacrifice form for time. You don’t have to.
Crossfit is for athletes, and those who want to be generally physically prepared. Which is why its popular among firefighters, the military, cops and MMA fighters. Really, there is no better program I have ever seen for general physical preparedness/fitness. But, as with everything, whether crossfit is for you depends entirely on your goals.
And Ryan, yes, crossfit will get you to those goals, except for perhaps the shoulder press. It will get you close in the shoulder press. Yesterday was the crossfit total, wherein you test your 1RM in the back squat, press, deadlift. Check the comments — most veteran crossfitter’s totals are near that range, while at the same time they are pumping out ridiculous times on their metcon workouts.
Crossfit has some interesting workout ideas. Better yet they are all free and listed on their main page as the Work Out of the Day (WOD). However the exercises prescribed have a high skill set. Most people are not athletes or experienced trainers and the exercises and combination of moves called for in Crossfit require some experience. There also seems to be an emphasis on quantity over quality. This all leads to an extremely high injury rate. CF does offer “certification” courses for $1,000 a pop. Which might be okay for say olympic lifts but does anyone really need a certification to learn how to jump rope? The little girls across the street from me seem to be doing just fine in spite of a lack of instruction from Buddy Lee. And don’t even get me started on certification for rowing machines. Please.
What I like about CrossFit is that it gives me useful strength. I’m probably a bit older than many on this forum and I have done the bodybuilding routines combined with cardio but that methos never got me as fit as Crossfit has. CrossFit is more than just the WOD. While I many times do the mainsite WOD other times it doesn’t fit in with what I want to do for a particular week so I may add a day of 5X5 to work on strength.
I like the intensity of the workouts. Trying to set a PR (personal record) by reducing my time in a WOD causes me to elevate my game.
Using Crossfit has helped me maintain/ improve my athleticism. My goal of having a 2X bodyweight squat and a 2.5X bodyweight DL is much closer to reality. It looks like I will be there in about 12 months.
I disagree with Mehdi in one aspect. He states in the article “Understand that you can’t get very strong AND very fit at the same time.” Even at my age I still believe it is possible to be strong AND fit.
Perhaps Mehdi can define what he meant by “very strong AND very fit”.
Keep up the good work Mehdi. Your articles are always thought-provoking.
As someone who did StrongLifts 5×5 for 3 months and has been CrossFitting for 4+ months now, I appreciate your take on it. Just to give you an idea of my progress on both, on your 5×5, I increased my deadlift from 275 to 315 (@BW=140). After a similar amount of time on CrossFit, I increased my deadlift from 315 to 365 (@BW=141), which is over 2.5xBW. I’m also close to a 2xBW squat (last max was 265 a month ago).
Strength progress maybe be slower in CrossFit, but it is still there. Some just need to find their balance between Max Effort (ME) strength work and conditioning work. It’s just a matter of “tweaking” the vanilla CrossFit programming on the main page to suit your goals.
The program you have outlined does look like a good way to get very strong and decently fit. Others have found a ratio of 1 ME day for every 2 conditioning days to be a good mix as well. Others also have had good success working one heavy lift before a WOD, rotating through squat, deadlift, press, bench, cleans, jerks, weighted pullups/dips.
Your suggestion for “the Bear” is one I would actually avoid if using the CrossFit WODs for supplemental conditioning when on a strength heavy program. CrossFit workouts are a mix of weightlifting (W), gymnastics (G), and metabolic (M) conditioning (cardio) efforts (run/row/jump rope), and can be any combination of such - W, WG, WM, G, GM, M, MGW. “The Bear”, (along with Grace, Isabel, and the ME days) being a monostructural weightlifting workout would be more taxing in a similar way to the heavy lifts (squat, deadlift, press) and not allow for full recovery for the strength lifts.
I think the 3 element (MGW) workouts (Helen, Jackie, Christine), 2 element gymnastic/metabolic (Annie, Nicole, Michael, Murph), or monostructural gymnastic (Angie, Barbara, Cindy), would be of more benefit when used in this program.
(Explanation of named workouts: http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/faq.html#WOD0)
I also just want to reiterate Bret K’s statement that the “lack of programming” is the beauty of CrossFit. The “apparent” randomness of the programming results in a greater training stimulus rather than efficiency adaptations. I say “apparent” because there is a method to the madness and underneath the surface there is macro, mini, and micro cycles.
Oh, and by the way, there’s quite a few CrossFitters out there with 3xBW deadlifts
Your article was an interesting read, I have wondered what your thoughts were on Crossfit, now I am waiting for the Peoples Socialist Republic of Crossfit to come storming your gates any minute now. Just kidding, but sometimes hardcore Crossfitters seem unable to admit any drawbacks to the system.
As for myself Crossfit worked very well for awhile but I did feel the system leaned more towards metabolic conditioning that strength. This isn’t necessarily a big drawback, but personally I wanted a bit more strength work so I started doing your 5×5 routine once for every 3 day period of Crossfit. For example I would do 5×5, WOD, WOD, rest, 5×5, WOD, WOD, rest, etc.
Then I found Ross’ book, purchased it and read it cover to cover. I tweaked my workouts per his material, for example I would do Muscle Strength Workout(free weights), Metcon/Cardio/Work Capacity workout, Muscle Endurance Workout(body weight), rest then repeat. So I followed the Crossfit 3 on 1 off style but for the muscle strength day I would do your Beginner 5×5 workout, then for the Metcon day I would do some HIIT workout from Ross’ book and finally for the muscle endurance workout I would also put together a workout(or follow an example) from Ross’ book.
I also do Brazilian Jujitsu 2-3 times a week so after about 8-9 weeks I started to feel over trained, so I again tweaked my workouts a bit and basically do your Beginners 5×5 workout in a 3×5 format for the strength day and toned down the Metcon HIIT days a bit(no more than 20 minutes) and left the muscular endurance days untouched. I have now been doing this for about a nine months and I have to say it has worked really, really well. I workout with 1.2 times body weight for bench 1.7 for squat and 2.2 for deadlift and am probably in the best cardiovascular shape of my life.
Well that turned out a bit longer than I had meant and probably no one cares so I will shut up now. Anyhow, thanks for another great article Mehdi!
Nice post Mehdi.
I like to mix a lot of crossfit ideas into my training. Ive incorporated a lot of stuff that they do with kettlebells and gymnastics rings….things I would have never done before. Like everything else in fitness, there’s not one specific way to do something. it all depends on the indivdual and their goals.
-Justin
On a complete Strength gains perspective, yes endurance sports hinder your max lift abilities. If you are an endurance athlete though, strength training is very beneficial.
Kind of funny, but it’s all about your ultimate goals. Do you want to be more endurance based or strength based?
Contrary to what the True Believers will opine, it seems unlikely that CF is the One True Way for everyone all the time (unless your sole motivation is to get good at Crossfit). But god damn it provides an excellent base for elaborating upon. If you concentrate on getting proper technique nailed down (practice makes permanent, so practice doing it right) and then ramp up the intensity, you will get strong, fit, and focused. This applies to Crossfit just as it does with any other protocol; it turns out that doing hard things is hard. (duh) If you want to be good at a particular sport, however, you’re going to have to practice the specific skills for your pursuit in addition to doing GPP work (or, sometimes, instead of going GPP work like the WOD), else you will not get full benefits. I don’t believe that CF is the ‘only’ way to establish a good physical foundation, but it seems to work and there are a lot of people who swear by it. (Plenty who swear at it, too…) Ross is another GPP monster.
My own experience is that CF got me in better physical shape (endurance and focus wise) than I’ve been in for many years, and that transferred to my favorite activities (backcountry skiing, climbing, bicycling) surprisingly well. I don’t ski well if I don’t get onto the snow, and I don’t climb well if I don’t get on the rocks, but my baseline has moved up (a lot) in both cases, and the amount of burn that my legs and lungs can tolerate seems to have shot up.
I wanted a bodyweight snatch and I got it. Wanted a hand-stand push-up on the parallel bars and got that too. I wanted a bodyweight press and I’m 95% of the way there. Wanted a 405# DL and that was almost casual. I wanted to lead 5.11 on gear and… well, let’s not go there, that’s not Crossfit’s fault ;-). Needless to say I view the WOD as a useful foundation, and the wealth of resources provided as CF itself evolved is no small part of the equation. If you go back and look at some of the ‘old school’ periodizations of WODs from, say, 2002-2004, they look complicated, yet almost primitive! Greg Glassman has hardly been resting on his laurels as time went by.
That said, if you’re exclusively looking to get stronger, a better idea would be to visit the Performance Menu site, or Louie Simmons’ Westside Barbell articles, and see how specialists mesh GPP with hard-core strength training. Michael Rutherford developed a popular variation on the CF WOD where the middle day in each 3-day cycle is swapped out for a pure max-effort workout. That’s more along the lines of what an intermediate strength athlete might use. Louie Simmons, in particular, may have the last word on training — “Everything works. Nothing works forever.” Think for yourself, use what works, and discard the rest. It’s as true for Crossfit as for any other endeavor.
Good luck, keep an open mind, and don’t let your brain fall out in the process.
I do CrossFit for about 3 years now.
- My deadlift is 2xBW (I just focus on DL for about month or so bit more). I don’t want more, I’m not powerlifter. I started with 40 kg, now I could pull 165 kg.
- I never puked after WOD (but I’m very close sometimes)
- I learned everything (even cleans & snatches) by my own
- I would say I’m much better, much better than average…in many things
So I would respectfully disagree with you.
Im a 38 year old police officer, and I have been training regular weight lifting for about 20 years, with emphasis on strength and power using mostly 5-6 reps and heavy weights. This mixed with a few running workouts made me occupied for about 4-5 days, 1 or 1.5 hour a day. Then I bought a house, got myself a wife and two kids, and the time spent in the gym drastically decreased, and I got in worser and worser shape. For 2 years ago a friend of mine introduced me to Crossfit. In the beginning I was a bit sceptical, but I gave it a try and read most of the articles and watched the videos on crossfit.com (and youtube).
I have now been training Crossfit 3 days on/1 off for about 1.5 years, and I can truly say that I am in my best shape of my life. I can deadlift about 200kg (bw 95kg), squat 140kg, front squat 125kg, clean 100kg, pushpress 90kg, do handstand pushups, do L-pullups, dips in gymnastic rings, do a LOT of pullups, pushups, situps, etc. My general metabolic condition has improved drastically, my bodyfat has decreased drastically without much attention to what I eat (lost about 10kg fat) Crossfit is perfect for my job as a police officer. It makes my body stronger, faster, leaner, quicker, etc, and I think its important to understand that crossfit is not ment to make you world champion in bodybuilding, nor a marathon winner, but to get you in a better all round physical condition.
I am sure that the 5×5 program works fine if your main goal is to get stronger (I have done it myself), but it will not make your endurance or metabolic condition much better unless you do additional workouts concerning this.
So in my opinion, considering my needs as a leo, and my limited time to spend on trraining Crossfit is making the most out of my 20-30 minute workouts (Sometimes under 10 minutes). If you have more time, fine then you can do a lot of workouts all day, but I cant
- Too Much Endurance. You’ll increase your strength, but don’t expect to increase your Deadlift to 2x body-weight.
I have been weight training for 20 years, but I have never had the gains in strenght that I have now thanks to CF. I went from about 140kg deadlift to 200kg in a year doing only WODs.
- Lack of Programming. You jump from one thing to another every WOD: today long runs, tomorrow singles. Too much of everything at the same time will make you average in a lot of things, but great at nothing.
If you read CF journal february 2003 the principles of the WODs are described. What can be seen as jumping from one thing to another actually is a kind of cyckling which to me in the beginning seemd like a total mess. But when I looked more into it I began to understand how it worked. And as it is stated in one of the first CF journals: CF is not designed to make you excel in specialized physical abilities, but to make you excel in all the 10 physical standards. For my self I would say that I might not be the all time high strongest officer at my department, but CF has surely made me one of the most “universal” officer regarding physical condition.
Hard for Beginners. You can’t learn proper technique using endurance workouts. Crossfit also seems to think that puking is normal/hardcore.
- This is true to a certain point. Yes it is hard for beginners to follow the WODs as described, but this is not the intention either. As a beginner the “Where to start” page at crossfit.com explains how to approach crossfit. Proper technique isnt learned troughout endurance workouts that is correct, but it is emphasized that you should learn the techniques well before you follow the WODS. Puking isnt normal or hardcore, but you should be aware that following some of the CF workouts CAN make you puke if you push your self too hard. I have never puked, but there have been times when I was pretty close.
I think CF is like being sprayed with pepper spray. You cant imagine the effect unless you try it
I would point out that, in my experience, different Crossfit affiliates have slightly different takes on the strength versus metcon balance. Where I currently train, there’s a much larger focus on “going heavy,” which to my mind makes a lot of sense (I hear we’re actually referred to as “Crossfit Heavy” by some other affiliates). The logic (I think) basically is that, after a few months of Crossfitting, most athletes are capable of progressing through a metcon-based workout at a pretty good clip, but if you threw something heavy in the mix, a lot would suddenly struggle. So strength seems to be the real limiting factor for many Crossfit (and other) athletes. Thus a greater emphasis on heavy lifting, including technique. But, for all our heavy stuff, what we do is still very much Crossfit. There’s a lot of variation and a lot of intensity, it’s just that DLs, pressing, squatting, etc, are more likely to be thrown in the mix with the push-ups, pull-ups, running, kettlebells, gymnastics, etc.
Also, I think the main Crossfit website as of late has, in fact, started upping the strength component, perhaps for similar reasons to those I’ve described. This may be Rippetoe’s influence, and it may be coach’s realization that, if there’s a chink in most people’s armor, it’s probably strength.
The workout we just did the other day, which was an event at the Crossfit games, was 5 rounds of 5×275 deadlift and 10 burpees. I weigh 145, so that for me was a lot of weight to be deadlifting that many times. My time was crap, just over 8 minutes. But there was a competitor in the Games, Speal, who weighs 135 and did the workout in under 3 minutes. That, I think, is pretty damn intense.
There was certainly a lot of food for thought in the replies above. I must say, however, that I have always found over the years that if you are training for optium strength then you ar best sticking to lifting routines. I follow a very basic program which is very similar to the 5×5 and on lifting days I usally do some rowing later in the day as active recovery. I find this helps muscle recovery and I also do some the folowjng day, all at moderate pace. This provides the cardio.
Mind you I am specifically foscussed on power lifting and building strength and have found that too much cardio inhibits my gains, if not only through over working muscles.
Despite a set-back earlier this year (torn hamstring) am I back lifting body weight + on bench/ DL / squat. Previous best was 2xBW for DL and just over 1.5x for squat. Currently 100kg and 48years.
This article is like a can of worms. Kudos for the guts to write it, knowing you’ll have numerous opinions that would register against yours.
Personally, I’m an oly lifter running through with USA Weightlifting’s hypertrophy program at the moment. However, there was a time when I did quite a bit of Crossfit and the results were astounding. Perhaps it was my body screaming for a change from all the heavy triples and singles but I experienced an increase in general fitness levels, freshness, I felt lighter and speed was also improved. These carried to my Oly lifting and my lifts are faster and I’m not dying through the 10RM squats anymore.
And I have to STRONGLY disagree about the 2x bodyweight deadlift. Seeing a 65KG fellow deadlift 160KG’s is way above 2x bodyweight already. I’m 75 and I only pull 190KG’s off the floor and that’s with some dedicated powerlifting training.
The lack of programming is the REASON it works, because the body just keeps guessing all the time.
It’s a pretty good program if you ask me.
P.S. Having done nothing but Crossfit for the past 8 months, and with no background in weights before that, I am over 1.8xBW Squat, 2.25xBW DL, and 1xBW Press. And my metcon far exceeds what I was capable of before. So at least for me it seems to work, albeit as mentioned with a greater emphasis on weights where I train.
I’ve been looking around the site and write myself sometimes.
Two things I’ve picked up on.
1. The vast amounts of information available in regards to every aspect of strength training.
2. Your ability to articulate this information to people ranging from beginners to experienced strength trainers.
This is one of the best blogs I’ve come across not just in terms of strength training or fitness but in general.
Thanks for taking the time to do this. It’s much appreciate by myself and countless friends
Posts 3, 22 and 23 are the required reading thus far.
My input:
I have been on CF for 3 months. I have never been more fit, in all of the 10 areas of fitness, than at any other point in my life. That includes my years in Collegiate rugby and swimming/diving, or during High School football, swimming/diving, and track, or during my marathon training last year. I am amazed. And I am excited to see where I’ll be in the months and years to come!
My strength dipped at the beginning, but is back to where it was when I started 3 months ago. GOALS, GOALS, GOALS. What are yours…? I was disappointed at my strength loss at first, but I was so impressed at my ridiculous gains in every other area (including tertiary ones such as energy, physique, mentality, entertainment, etc.) that I reevaluated my goals and now firmly believe in Coach’s philosophy of pursuing total fitness. BTW, even on CF, SQ=1.75xBW, DL=2xBW, and PR=.8BW, so I consider myself to be both very strong and very fit.
CrossFit as Rx’d has a very high learning curve. But its’ concepts of the 10 measures of fitness plus scalability, variety, and interval training can be incorporated by anyone regardless of ability or equipment access. I can’t even explain how elated I am to see the health community slowly shifting its focus from endurance and powerlifting back to total fitness and health. Of course there will always be image-obsessed muscleheads, but CrossFit is a lifestyle for the people that can be scaled to even world-class athlete needs.
Actual puking is ridiculous in any context; the concept of pushing yourself that hard in any context isn’t. I have never puked on CF.
The cert prices are indeed ridiculous.
Mehdi,
Thanks for your opinion on Crossfit, which is one that I share. I can’t help but think though, that at all of these positive appraisals of Crossfit sound endorsements in a fitness magazine using hyperbole like “never before,” “ridiculous improvement,” “astounding”, etc.
I’m planning to start a hybrid of Crossfit WoD’s and strength training once I reach intermediate benchmarks on all my lifts. I want the basal strength to be there to complete WoD’s at the prescribed weight before I tackle them. I’ve done a few already (started with Murph, modified pulls since I haven’t learned to kip properly. Ouch, talk about pain) and love the concept and the feeling at the end.
I have done crossfit in the past and am now starting it back up again. I’ve done strongman contests, played rugby, was an amateur boxer and am an all-around athlete. Crossfit is hard, its intense, its crazy… but it works. What I have done is use one week of crossfit and one week of conventional lifting and alternate them so I retain my muscularity and strength more. At this stage of my life I don’t care about being the strongest guy on the block… big isn’t always bad.
But the WoD’s are intense and I have puked doing them and I puked this week doing one of them as well… Then again I am 250 pounds, although I am in decent shape, weight is weight.
Mehdi, although I understand your reservations about it, the facts are that crossfit is one of the best workout plans for people who are active in life. It WILL create an athlete and an incredibly fit athlete, lifting weights won’t do that. Lifting only gets you stronger it won’t teach you to move 135 pounds for 45 reps while your heart is ready to blow up. This stuff works.
#29
Difference being, Tresbien, that hyperbole is by definition an overstatement. It is almost impossible to overstate the level of fitness achieved by high intensity, healthy crossfit training on a solid diet (Zone, paleo, IF).
Another difference from health magazines…crossfit doesn’t pretend to be or market itself as easy. And believe me, it is not easy.
I have just read through the entire list of comments and have in 30 mins gone from being just curious about CF to thinking about how to incorporate it into my own routine, thanks to several serious and thoughtful replies (creds to bret k amongst others). My dilemma however, is that, in spite the WODs being very intense and taxing, I regard 20-30 mins of training to be too short a time to train for one day. It may seem naiv but I just consider it too short a time per day to spend on training in my best of years with one tough military duty coming up to which I would like to optimize my raw strength, long distance marching stamina and first and foremost prepardness to overuse injuries involved with extreme military effort activity. However I guess there is really not much to whine about but rather sit down and make an individual-based plan for myself, right? Marching in the morning and CF in the afternoon kind of?
Thanks for bringing this topic up for discussion Mehdi!
@ Philip
The relatively short duration of the (mixed-modal) workout is where CrossFit shines. In theory, the CrossFitter drives their output to the max at an unsustainable pace, which elicits the greatest adaptation and nueroendicrine response. Doing more will often slow down the rate of progress, a fact commonly lost on athletes.
Of course, in the beginning it’s essential to “go through the motions” and introduce intensity very gradually. It’s important to be able to stick with it and not burn or injure yourself out.
Phillip, I would recommend checking out the videos of the competitors at the Crossfit Games this year, as well as other the other videos hosted on the Crossfit website, particularly under WODs (”Workouts of the Day”). All of the people in these videos basically do just one Crossfit WOD a day as their sole workout (some competitors for the Games did a couple a day for a short period prior to the Games, but only to simulate the conditions of the Games). It sounds unbelievable at first, but the short time commitment the WODs require is actually optimal: the athletes in the videos are pretty incredible empirical evidence of this. Extra training won’t help, and may hurt, progress, unless you are training for a particular sport (e.g., MMA fighters will still need to practice fighting). Some links below, including one to one of the more impressive strength performances (”Quest for 300 Overhead”), which features a couple of my coaches (Kelly Starrett and Adrian Bozman).
Also, the workouts actually usually take closer to an hour, once you build in a good warm-up and stretching, a “skill” component (where you practice movements at lighter weights to get your form down), and a good warm-down, all of which I consider vital.
Finally, regarding whether Crossfit works for the military, a ton of SpecOps and USMC members I know do nothing by Crossfit and perform incredibly. Another relevant video below.
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/excercise.html (See “WODs.”)
http://games.crossfit.com/
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_300.wmv
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_SCL1ToshDoesGrace.wmv
(The last video is of Catain Chontosh, USMC, who has been Crossfitting for, I believe, a couple years, and did some pretty incredible things in Iraq. Wikipedia him.)
Cheers!
Sorry for the typos. In the paragraph on the military, I meant to say “a ton of SpecOps and USMC members I know do nothing but Crossfit and perform incredibly.”
@Phillip - with CF you spend 20-30 minutes of daily, highly intensive WOD (plus some warmup & some cooldown). But you do it six times a week. Which is the same (or more) than 3 times per week per hour. Also I do counted it as a plus - less time spend with exercise, but more often. Also my injuries or pains or better now, as I almost always work on something else.
@FilthyBrit - where do you do your WOD’s ? Do you have a blog ? I would like to see your ‘heavy’ Crossfit samples. Thanks.
As for CF programming - I would like to second the opinion that it is all random. There is a programming in CF very sophisticated one it’s just not visible to someone who is not used to it.
‘As for CF programming - I would like to second the opinion that it is all random. ‘
Oh man, it should be :
‘As for CF programming - I would like to second the opinion that it is NOT all random. ‘
Petr,
I train at San Francisco Crossfit. Unfortunately, they don’t post the workouts online, and I don’t keep a blog. There are often different WODs each day depending on what time you go, too. But, a friend does keep a blog of his workouts, which may give some insight on the programming. He may kill me for linking this, but,:
http://sfcrossfitlog.blogspot.com/
Cheers!
Ffilthybrit,
and do my WOD’s there (well I would love to I’ll see as I could manage the time element of my visit).
great thanks for info.
I saw quite a lot of videos from SanFran CF of someone playing with heavy weight.
As a matter of fact, I should be in San Francisco (I’m from Europe) in August for couple of days so there is a possibility that I’ll visit local CF
I’m planning on using the 5×5 first for one cycle, then I will check into mixing it with crossfit.
I must just chime in here real quick. I think CrossFit is great - I have been doing it on and off for 3 years and it really has helped me attain a high level of fitness. I am a certified CrossFit instructor and a NSCA-CSCS, and I have been fortunate to train at Mark Verstegen’s Athletes’ Performance in Arizona - not that these things actually mean anything, but I think they at least afford me SOME credibility in my post.
I agree with one of Mehdi’s thoughts - basically i think CrossFit can lead to too much injury. That’s why I do it on and off.
but when programming with the 5×5, crossfit can be used at the end of the workout each day. The whole point of CrossFit is intense metcon and it can happen on its own or after your normal workout. Many times I have heard coach Glassman say that if you enjoy hypertrophy workouts, go ahead and train that way, but if you want to be fit add a little burner at the end.
Mehdi is right - you can’t get Olympic strong doing CrossFit, but he is wrong saying that you can’t get very strong on the program. I think he meant to qualify “very strong” as Olympic strong. I deadlift 2x and squat 2x, run 100m in less than 12 seconds, and run a mile in under 5 minutes. I am a former pro soccer player and I have never encountered a regimen so neurologically and metabolically enhancing. I think that fact and my results speak volumes to the effectiveness of CrossFit.
But be warned: it takes time to develop the skill set to perform movement correctly and safely. While CrossFit says that intensity is king, I believe proper movement should never be compromised. Just take a look at the CrossFit blog every day and note how many people are injured.
Petr,
Meant to respond sooner. Hope to see you at SFCF when you visit! Welcome anytime.
Cheers.
Well, everyone is different
I could live on CrossFit for months without problems (3 days on, 1 off).
with high intensity and good results.
But I couldn’t imagine 5×5 program AND WOD after that. When I did 5×5 (and variations) in the past I was soooo spend after training that I could not imagine to do more, 45-60 minutes of heavy lifting is more than enough for me even if I do that only 3 times per week.
But I’m not strongest man on the planet