Andy Green (50y, US Army) sent me this email asking how to deal with sore legs on StrongLifts 5x5, and how to eliminate your belly and chest fat. Quote...
Hello.. Mehdi
My name is Andy and I've been doing "stronglifts5x5" since 23 Jan 11... and I love it. I'll be "50" in April and I'm getting back into the shape that I was when I was in the Army. I retired back in 1995 and I let myself go... not good. I gained weight... when I retired I weighed about 174 lbs at 5' 8" and I got up to 302 lbs. Very sad... I was told I had diabetes and I also have sleep apnia.
Well, YOUR program is changing my life. I feel great and people are asking ME what I've been doing to lose weight and how was I getting "thicker" is what one guy quoted to me. Man...comments like those is what make one want to go back too the gym. I look forward to the next day that I can lift... don't get me wrong here... there are times that I'm very sore from my last lifts... but NO EXCUSES. I even went home sick one day from work... but I still did my workout. It even made me feel better...weird.
I have a couple questions for you.
- I'm getting "thicker" but I still have a lot of belly fat and chest fat... how can I get it off?
- Should I doing any cardio AFTER lifting or BEFORE lifting?
- My legs are very sore... next day not too bad... but 2nd day it's freak-in hard to even walk... how can I "ease" the pain?
I've been passin on the STRONGLIFTS 5X5 to all of my co-workers at work... they have seen what is done for me in 9 weeks and now they want to try it. I told them... if you don't go every time your suppose to go... it's not going to work... you need to be committed.
I'm down to 274 lbs...want to be at 200 by April of 2012...
I hope you get this message from me...I know your very busy. I want to tell you THANKS!! You are the MAN!
Andy....
US ARMY
Retired... "NEVER QUIT"
Thanks for spreading the word and great job training even though you felt sick. Nobody ever wants to lift on those days, but everybody feels better afterwards. And how often have I hit PRs on days where I felt like crap? Most guys stay at home when they have a simple cold, and never discover what you've learned.
Your first question - to eliminate your belly fat and man boobs you simply have to lower your body fat. You're 274lb at 5'8" so it's obvious that you carry a lot of excess fat. Recent research suggests that spot reduction is possible, but not for guys with +15% body fat which is the overwhelming majority. So the good old fashioned fat loss strategies apply: eat less calories than your body burns. Cleaning up your diet by eating more whole foods and less junk is the start.
Second question - cardio AFTER lifting. Doing cardio first would get your legs tired for Squats and limit the amount of weight you can use. Strength training is more important than cardio for fat loss because it prevents muscle loss when dieting which is vital in order not to turn skinny-fat. So do cardio after if you want to, but remember to clean up your diet - cardio + junk diet = useless.
Third question - foam roll your legs daily to get rid of the soreness faster. Don't ever skip workouts, this only makes things worse - the best way to eliminate soreness is to train your legs again since this flushes blood into your muscles. The soreness will almost always go away after your warm-up sets.
To be honest, the soreness could last a few months until your legs are used to all the work. My trainingpartner has been lifting with me for 6 months and he says his legs are sore all the time while mine rarely are. Now since his Squat has skyrocketed to 297lb and his Deadlift to 374lb during this time, there's no overtraining B.S. going on here, he has and continue to make progress.
Drop the cardio for now so your legs have less work to do, consider switching from 5x5 to 3x5/1x5 earlier since you're in your 50s now, and foam roll your legs daily (or better, get a masseuse). Most important: remember eating too little hurts recovery, so eat plenty of whole foods and drink a gallon of water a day for hydration. But always keep Squatting, the soreness will go away.
As usual, I really enjoyed the post.
For me, I don’t get very sore anymore ever since I changed my diet. Like you recommend, I eat a healthy diet full of whole, unrefined foods. I think the fact that my diet is less acidic helps a lot.
One other suggestion that a friend of mine did was to scale back the weight by 5 or 10 pounds. He was still able to add on 5 lbs almost every workout, but was not getting as sore, obviously because he wasn’t pushing as hard. But if his max is still moving up 5 to 15 lbs a week, I don’t see the problem.
Wait, spot reduction is NOT a myth??
Hi Medhi
In your article yesterday you said spot reduction was a myth but then today you have said
“Recent research suggests that spot reduction is possible, but not for guys with +15% body fat which is the overwhelming majority.”
I personally don’t think spot reduction is possible. For example people who do sit ups to lose belly fat. I also dislike the word toning and think it is used inaccurately.
Can you please post a link to this recent research or advise what your opinion is on spot reduction please?
Great article Mehdi would like to see a link to the spot reduction research
Stories like Andy’s are very motivating. I am only in my second week of the 5×5 program. Already I can tell my muscles are responding, even if the weight hasn’t yet. I have also cleaned up my diet greatly. I still have a few areas to work on, but I have almost eliminated processed foods. I am at 194 now at 5′ 11″ with around 25% body fat at 39. My most athletic weight was 175 at 10% body fat. It has been a long time since I was there. I think I’ll get there with 5×5. Examples like Andy’s really keep me pumped to stay with it.
Great post and I agree with everything stated. Andy, I’d add that a big part of the recovery that Medhi is talking about is adequate sleep. Be sure to get your 8+hours, especially after deadlift day! Foam rolling hurts like crap, especially when you’re already sore, but I agree that it will help ease the pain. Test this out for yourself by only foam rolling one side really well, then get down into a squat position. You’ll notice that the side you rolled feels better and is more flexible. Your story is very motivating Keep it up!
I’m with Michael — when I get sore, it’s because I have been slacking on the diet. Sometimes it is from not eating enough, but usually it is from not drinking enough milk (which means it is probably a combination of protein and hydration I’m lacking.)
The first week of the program my legs were sooooo sore. Sad I know using the bare bar or 5 to 10 lbs on the bar. The second week I almost skipped because of soreness, but then I read Mehdi’s recommendation to push through and workout through the soreness.
The next day (after the Monday workout out of week 2) the soreness was almost completely gone! Now, in week 10, I get a satisfying tight feeling in my gluts and quads. Working out when sore really does work!
I agree with Kdog & Yusheel, I would like Mehdi to post about spot reduction. Thank you.
I’m in my second week of 5×5. I get a little sore like Andy, but my main issue (when doing squats) is painful tenderness in the tendons/ligaments in my legs in front of my hips (hip flexors?). Has anyone else experienced this kind of tenderness or pain when doing squats? Any advice on what to do about it? Thanks!
Spot reduction research proof please! I’ve been through tons of research and material stating the contrary.
A recent paper on this is:
“Subcutaneous fat alterations resulting from an upper-body resistance training program.” Kostek MA et. al. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2007 Jul;39(7):1177-85
This reviewed the literature and stated that
“Despite the commonly held belief that spot reduction does not occur as a result of exercise training (19), the literature conflicts on this issue. The majority of investigations (N = 5) examining spot reduction (N = 8) have concluded that it does not occur (2,9,11,20,21). In contrast, Mohr (12), Olsen and Edelstein (16), and Noland and Kearney (15) report that spot reduction occurred as a result of exercise training.”
Is Stronglifts 3×5 exactly the same as 5×5 but with 2 less sets? I have been trying to determine what new workout I should be on at this point.
I’ve been doing 5×5 for probably too long but I’m benching 230lbs 5×5 and squatting 245 lbs 5×5 at 170 lbs body weight. I’m basically stalled though, is just cutting 2 sets the way to go?
Mehdi, cool post. I definitely want that link to the spot fat reduction research, the only thing I could find online was some dude trying to sell something. His reasoning was that muscles oxidize nearby fat at a faster rate, thus drawing energy from the nearest fat to burn for fuel. I suppose that makes a little sense, but when everyone has a different opinion (including you, you seem to contradict yourself over time but that’s just learning, right?).
Anyway, the leg thing, like Jay says I have been getting mega-soreness and tightness but in my right leg only. It feels like the rectus femoris muscle–I wonder if anyone else has had this specific injury? It stopped me in my tracks on squats for 2 workouts, because I couldn’t get all the way down with that leg without a clasp-knife response and a loss of tension.
Good news is I just bought some tennis balls, and I have a foam roller on the way. This soreness responded really well to the tennis ball. Which reminds me, Mehdi, why didn’t you include psoa work in your article on correcting lordosis? I was stretching like crazy 3x a day and it didn’t seem to do anything, but when I used a tennis ball on my psoas and THEN stretched I felt great all day. Might accelerate correction, just a thought.
Jay, Mehdi recommends doing Squat 2 Stands with Overhead Reach daily for 3 sets of 8 reps. You can see more at his squat guide:
http://stronglifts.com/how-to-squat-with-proper-technique-fix-common-problems/
Jay
yes, i experienced those pains for quite some time before i realised i didnt have the flexibility to squat (with correct technique). static stretching and hip mobility is really important. search for the info on this site and on youtube and then spend ten minutes on warming up with these stretches before you start squatting. you can also do this on your rest days. that stopped the pain for me, hope it helps.
yep the best way to reduce soreness is to squat again in the next workout
Jay,
sorry that was meant to be dynamic stretching not static stretching. static streching is supposed to be bad for strength training. make sure you do dynamic stretching!
Jay, are you doing enough stretching beforehand?
I begun squatting less than 100 pounds and now squat 315 for 5 reps at 180 bw without a belt. I still feel quite sore from squat. Usually I feel sore 2 days after working out which is quite awful seeing as how on SL and all strength training programs you typically skip a day between workouts. Going to try foam rolling.
Thanks for all the tips on my issue you guys. I am probably NOT doing enough stretching in general. I usually stretch for 3 or 4 minutes before I start. i will look into dynamic stretching as well as the link that Steven posted. Appreciate it you guys!
A couple months back I worked up to squatting almost every day.
Initially it’s a killer, but then I broke through a tipping point and didn’t get sore anymore. No stretching or foam rolling, just warmup sets.
Note that I was eating like a madman and napping almost every day.
Strength piled on.
It was beautiful.
I take soreness as feedback on my recovery cycle. When I get extremely sore it means I didn’t do enough to recover in the time. A heavy dose of protien after a big squat workout seems to help. So does stretching, sleep, heat, or anything else to increase blood flow in my legs. if nothing else works, an extra day of rest. ABut after 2 days of rest I force myself back into the gym on the 3rd day because another does of squats will kill the soreness.